Wow, C150 = Time Saver = Awesome 3 Days.

Sounds like fun!
I was recently (two weeks ago) on an engineering job outside of Paris France
(180nm SW of Paris). My programmer was arriving from Los Angeles on Friday
morning, and we had to get him to the site in time to meet with the
contractors before they all took off for the weekend. I could drive up to get
him, but as you say this would have been 4 hours each way - tiring to the
point of being dangerous, and not exactly optimal use of my time. Train
schedules were not cooperating, despite the excellent trains in Europe, they
are not perfect to all destinations at all times.

Weather was great though, and there was an airport a couple miles away, with
a flying club where I was able to rent a 172. Did a checkride the night
before, then launched in the morning, had a stunning tour of the French
countryside and had my guy on site before lunch! And the total cost of the
operation was not that much more than the train, that would have had him
there at 5PM.

Everyone was thrilled with the "usefullness" of the small plane that saved
the day - but in truth we sort of hit everything "on the numbers". The trip
was just long enough to be useful, but short enough to be practical. Weather
was fine - couldn't have planned this ahead of time under VFR, Other
transportation means were not coming through - and of course my car was
already there, so we weren't stranded upon landing.

The only "imperfect" element was that in Europe you cannot fly into large,
ommercial airports - at any cost. Charles de Gaulle is strictly off limits to
GA, so I had to get the guy to taxi to a small airport, which cost him some
time and money - but he was more than glad for the sightseeing tour. He only
saved 2.5 hours, compared to me driving him, but for me it was three hours of
relaxing flight, compared with eight hours of stressful driving.

G Faris

On 2005-06-28, Greg Farris wrote:
The only "imperfect" element was that in Europe you cannot fly into large,
ommercial airports - at any cost

That may be true of France, but remember that Europe is not a country
any more than North America is a country. It is an agglomeration of
(mostly) sovereign nations and what may be true in France is not
necessarily true in Italy or Poland.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

In article ,
says...

That may be true of France, but remember that Europe is not a country
any more than North America is a country. It is an agglomeration of
(mostly) sovereign nations and what may be true in France is not
necessarily true in Italy or Poland.



I cannot help but think that your rejoinder would have been more informative
had you offered at least one example. In fact, unless and until you do so (or
someone does) I will stand by my generalization, which I believe to be a
reasonably accurate one.

We read many reports here of people flying Cessnas into Logan, Reagan even
JFK. Obviously they do not simply "show up" there at 5:00PM on 45° for
downwind 04R! It involves off-peak planning etc, but it is possible. They last
one to try that in Paris spent some time on the stinky side of an iron cage,
and may never see the left seat again!

I know that EDDM (Munich) has gone further than many recent constructions in
offering services to General Aviation - but they do specify that you have to
be IFR and over 2T/MTOW to land there, which rules out everything up to and
including a C-182.

You make an interesting point about the "new" extended Europe. My guess would
be that the former east-bloc nations would be even more rule and restriction
bound than the traditional Europe, but I admit I've never flown there, and I
don't know. Do you?

G Faris

Greg Farris wrote:

In article ,
says...

That may be true of France, but remember that Europe is not a country
any more than North America is a country. It is an agglomeration of
(mostly) sovereign nations and what may be true in France is not
necessarily true in Italy or Poland.




I cannot help but think that your rejoinder would have been more informative
had you offered at least one example. In fact, unless and until you do so (or
someone does) I will stand by my generalization, which I believe to be a
reasonably accurate one.

We read many reports here of people flying Cessnas into Logan, Reagan even
JFK. Obviously they do not simply "show up" there at 5:00PM on 45° for
downwind 04R! It involves off-peak planning etc, but it is possible. They last
one to try that in Paris spent some time on the stinky side of an iron cage,
and may never see the left seat again!

I know that EDDM (Munich) has gone further than many recent constructions in
offering services to General Aviation - but they do specify that you have to
be IFR and over 2T/MTOW to land there, which rules out everything up to and
including a C-182.

You make an interesting point about the "new" extended Europe. My guess would
be that the former east-bloc nations would be even more rule and restriction
bound than the traditional Europe, but I admit I've never flown there, and I
don't know. Do you?

G Faris

The European Union should fix all the difference. Right?

Wrong.

The EU has its legislation but every member state can have its own,
including aviation.
So when it comes to aviation you first have ICAO, then EU, then state
regulations.
The last ones give you the real headaches when flying from country to
country.

And every airport can decide what traffic they welcome or not.
The discussion was that large airports do not welcome GA, but on a
smaller scale some airfields are off limits to UL and things like that.

-Kees

On 2005-06-29, Greg Farris wrote:
In article ,
says...

That may be true of France, but remember that Europe is not a country
any more than North America is a country. It is an agglomeration of
(mostly) sovereign nations and what may be true in France is not
necessarily true in Italy or Poland.

I cannot help but think that your rejoinder would have been more informative
had you offered at least one example. In fact, unless and until you do so (or
someone does) I will stand by my generalization, which I believe to be a
reasonably accurate one.

Your assertion was:
On 2005-06-28, Greg Farris wrote:
The only "imperfect" element was that in Europe you cannot fly into
large, ommercial airports - at any cost

Birmingham airport (EGBB) serves the UK's second largest city. It
certainly fits the bill as a 'large commercial airport' most of the
traffic consisting of domestic and international airline flights.

I have flown a Grumman Cheetah into EGBB.

Liverpool Airport has a GA flying club. It is also a large commercial
airport.

Manchester Airport is a major international airport, with airline
flights to and from the United States. I have seen GA aircraft,
including little ones like Piper Tomahawks, parked at Manchester.

The UK is part of the European Union. Most of the thrust of my post was
in any case to point out that Europe is NOT a country any more than
North America, so something that is true in France is not necessarily
true in Britain, Poland, Czech Republic, Malta or Ireland.

For another example, in Britain you can fly a G registered plane using
your FAA pilot certificate with no paperwork at all. I believe Ireland
has the same allowance for IE registered aircraft. However, in France
you need to obtain a JAR license prior to flying an F registered
aircraft.

You make an interesting point about the "new" extended Europe. My guess would
be that the former east-bloc nations would be even more rule and restriction
bound than the traditional Europe, but I admit I've never flown there, and I
don't know. Do you?

No, but as my first post said which you objected to - they won't be the
same as France because Europe is not a country. I was merely trying to
enlighten people in the US who may (from your posting) assume European
states are a bit like states in the US - a Federal system of
non-sovereign states and a Federal aviation system - where it is not.
Europe is not a country consisting of a number of federated states with
a single aviation system - it is an agglomeration of sovereign nations
and what holds true for France does not necessarily hold true for Italy
or the UK.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

For bug smasher planes cruising between 100-125kt, the sweet spot of
straight line travel distance is about 200 - 300nm. Assuming you have
someone picking you up at the destination, you can make a round trip in
a day while still have plenty of time spent at the destination, or make
the trip in two days and have a ton of time at the destination.

Most of the time the freeway distance is about 20% longer due to not
being a straight line. A 200-300nm distance will take a car 4-6 hours
of driving time, that makes a very tiring one day round trip. Even a
two day driving trip to a place 200-300nm away feels like driving a lot
on both days.