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Why did Iran buy F-14s instead of F-15s?
Hobo wrote: My understanding is that the Shah of Iran was offered either the F-14 or F-15 in response to his complaints of Soviet violations of his airspace. Why did the Iranians choose the F-14? The F-15 would have seemed a better choice for non-carrier use. The USAF seemed to think so. TIA Grumann and the Navy put on an air show at Andrews AFB in 1973 for the Shah, where he was viewing the F-15 also. The test crew broke some of the flight rules, but impressed the Shah enough for him to order the aircraft (not on the spot, but within days). Also, the AIM-54 was seen as a perfect anti-Foxbat weapon, as Iran was being constantly overflown by Soviet AF MiG-25Rs in the early and mid 1970s. Check Tom Cooper's Iran-Iraq War in the air for more info. (It's a good read, BTW) Posted via www.My-Newsgroups.com - web to news gateway for usenet access! |
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On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:12:50 GMT, "Matt Wiser"
wrote: Grumann and the Navy put on an air show at Andrews AFB in 1973 for the Shah, where he was viewing the F-15 also. The test crew broke some of the flight rules, but impressed the Shah enough for him to order the aircraft (not on the spot, but within days). Also, the AIM-54 was seen as a perfect anti-Foxbat weapon, as Iran was being constantly overflown by Soviet AF MiG-25Rs in the early and mid 1970s. Check Tom Cooper's Iran-Iraq War in the air for more info. (It's a good read, BTW) Foxbat was a problem during the period. The F-4 community was practicing head-on snap-up intercepts to try to counter the high altitude/high-speed overflights. It required a near perfect head-on run at high speed, then a pull-up to reach Rmax for the Sparrow at the apex. Firing then gave the missile a chance to meet the target before Rmin at the altitude. If not perfect, the missile missed. The AIM-54 clearly gave the better shot at a Foxbat. Maybe of greater importance was the "prestige" factor for Iran. They would be the only nation to receive this high technology system. Not even Israel had them. It demonstrated a great confidence by the US in both the Shah and Iran. Interesting anecdote related to the purchase. The aircraft were to be ferried to Iran where they were to be met and greeted by a parade of US and Iranian high rollers. They transited Torrejon for an overnight, then took off at dawn for the final leg, with tanker support, into Teheran. The tankers, from the 98th Strat Wg at Torrejon, took off about an hour earlier to be positioned down the Med for the refueling. When the F-14s pulled up for gas, they discovered someone had failed to note that the Toms were probe/drogue and no basket was fitted. The -14s aborted and returned to Torrejon. The parade and dignitaries at destination were disappointed (and embarrassed) and the DO of the 98th was fired. |
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Ed Rasimus wrote in message . ..
On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:12:50 GMT, "Matt Wiser" wrote: Grumann and the Navy put on an air show at Andrews AFB in 1973 for the Shah, where he was viewing the F-15 also. The test crew broke some of the flight rules, but impressed the Shah enough for him to order the aircraft (not on the spot, but within days). Also, the AIM-54 was seen as a perfect anti-Foxbat weapon, as Iran was being constantly overflown by Soviet AF MiG-25Rs in the early and mid 1970s. Check Tom Cooper's Iran-Iraq War in the air for more info. (It's a good read, BTW) Foxbat was a problem during the period. The F-4 community was practicing head-on snap-up intercepts to try to counter the high altitude/high-speed overflights. It required a near perfect head-on run at high speed, then a pull-up to reach Rmax for the Sparrow at the apex. Firing then gave the missile a chance to meet the target before Rmin at the altitude. If not perfect, the missile missed. The AIM-54 clearly gave the better shot at a Foxbat. ISTR reading an account of an Israeli F-4 attempting to use this procedure (I believe the book was titled "Zanek" or something similar) against a Foxbat, unsuccesfully. Brooks snip |
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Ed Rasimus wrote: On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:12:50 GMT, "Matt Wiser" wrote: Grumann and the Navy put on an air show at Andrews AFB in 1973 for the Shah, where he was viewing the F-15 also. The test crew broke some of the flight rules, but impressed the Shah enough for him to order the aircraft (not on the spot, but within days). Also, the AIM-54 was seen as a perfect anti-Foxbat weapon, as Iran was being constantly overflown by Soviet AF MiG-25Rs in the early and mid 1970s. Check Tom Cooper's Iran-Iraq War in the air for more info. (It's a good read, BTW) Foxbat was a problem during the period. The F-4 community was practicing head-on snap-up intercepts to try to counter the high altitude/high-speed overflights. It required a near perfect head-on run at high speed, then a pull-up to reach Rmax for the Sparrow at the apex. Firing then gave the missile a chance to meet the target before Rmin at the altitude. If not perfect, the missile missed. The AIM-54 clearly gave the better shot at a Foxbat. Maybe of greater importance was the "prestige" factor for Iran. They would be the only nation to receive this high technology system. Not even Israel had them. It demonstrated a great confidence by the US in both the Shah and Iran. Interesting anecdote related to the purchase. The aircraft were to be ferried to Iran where they were to be met and greeted by a parade of US and Iranian high rollers. They transited Torrejon for an overnight, then took off at dawn for the final leg, with tanker support, into Teheran. The tankers, from the 98th Strat Wg at Torrejon, took off about an hour earlier to be positioned down the Med for the refueling. When the F-14s pulled up for gas, they discovered someone had failed to note that the Toms were probe/drogue and no basket was fitted. The -14s aborted and returned to Torrejon. The parade and dignitaries at destination were disappointed (and embarrassed) and the DO of the 98th was fired. Regarding Iranian AF Foxbat intercepts: There was an intercept in 1977 of a MiG-25 over Iran where an F-14 crew had Phoenix lock-on and all they needed was clearance to fire. Ivan got the message after this and a drone shoot of BQM-34s at 60,000 feet. No more Foxbats over Imperial Iran. Iraqi AF MiG-25RBs were intercepted on several occasions, and a half dozen of them fell to AIM-54s. (Again, check the Cooper book for more info) Posted via www.My-Newsgroups.com - web to news gateway for usenet access! |
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"Hobo" wrote in message ... My understanding is that the Shah of Iran was offered either the F-14 or F-15 in response to his complaints of Soviet violations of his airspace. Why did the Iranians choose the F-14? The F-15 would have seemed a better choice for non-carrier use. The USAF seemed to think so. Usually it is said "it was the Russian MiG-25Rs", and then the USN people will say it was the show put up by the Grumman test pilots on a "fly-out", organized for the Shah, in November 1973. But, it was actually neither of both. The Iranians had a study about their future needs running already since 1970. The F-14 was a winner of this study, because of the a combination of endurance, flexibility (high speed/low speed performance/maneuverability), superior radar/superior long-range weapons etc. The decision actually fell already before the USN sent its first briefer to Tehran, that was in 1972. The more the Iranians studided the F-14 and F-15, the more they became sure that the Tomcat was the solution they were looking for. In their opinions (and I share these) their later experiences proved them correct beyond any doubt: when asked, they conclude that it is silly from anybody to expect that the Shah (or actually the IIAF, then it was the air force that made the choice: the Shah was [mis]used by them because of his charm that was known to "function" in the West in similar cases) to pay $2 billions, mobilize immense assets, and influence the future of the air force for the next 30 years - because of some stunt-flying. The MiG-25-overflights were, of course, an excellent "excuse", just like the story about "downgraded" AWG-9s sold to the US Congress etc. In turn, this made the USAF and the USN interested in the sale, as there was indeed an opportunity to test the Soviet MiG-25R/RBS that were overflying Iran (albeit, nowhere near as deep as usually explained: the Foxbats were operating along, not beyond the Iranian borders - like US/IIAF RF-4Es were doing). Tom Cooper Co-Author: Iran-Iraq War in the Air, 1980-1988: http://www.acig.org/pg1/content.php and, Iranian F-4 Phantom II Units in Combat: http://www.osprey-publishing.co.uk/t...hp/title=S6585 |
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