Chicago area from the southwest - advice?

: As to departures.....

: Anybody know the secret from departing the chicago area to the
: south/southwest? Departing from PWK, I've either been vectored almost
: to Iowa and then south, or around Midway to the south, and then brought
: back on course. In addition I was told this last time when picking up
: my clearance (with a filed 4000 for strong southwest windws at
: altitude) that they want you to fly 8000 with the palwaukee two
: departure. I've usually been able to negotiate lower, but my
: "negotiations" only seem to last till I get handed off to another
: sector. As far away as I was from ORD and MDW you'd think lower but
: still above the MVA would be better for them, but ATC system design is
: still black magic for me.

: If this last departure had been closer to VFR conditions, I'd have
: probably departed VFR, to pick up my clearance further down the
: road.... Maybe next time.

It seems pretty much SOP that in a spam-can flying IFR anywhere near the Chicago Bravo that you will almost
*always* be vectored almost to Iowa (Well, at least Beloit and Rockford, IL).

-Cory

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
* Electrical Engineering *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

Jay Beckman wrote:


As a Great Lakes area native, the above description just has me rolling with
laughter...

Jay B


It turns out they have that text on their website. I can't do it
justice:

http://members.aol.com/berrymanp/alyrics/01sesq.html

wrote in message
. com...
Weekends never were too bad from what I remember, Archer Ave. into
downtown would be a bad move though... for travel time you always take
a freeway there... if you want to be close to the rental place go to
Lewis, if you don't mind a 5 minute drive after getting picked up at
the airport go to Schaumburg, AVIS will come pick you up (their number
is (847) 330 2847, and the manager is named Barb, she's a good friend
of mine and when she came here to Hawai'i on her Honeymoon I flew and
her new husband around the islands, if you tell her I sent you she
should take good care of you), also the drive into downtown Chicago
from Schaumburg is very quick (20 minutes),

Actually, a 20 minute drive from Schaumburg to the Loop is very, very, very
quick, dangerously so, and probably impossible...unless you're the Blues
Brothers. Mere mortals should plan on an hour, more or less, depending on
just where in Chicago you're going.

from Romeoville (Lewis U)
it's over an hour, not only that but 06C has 100000% better planning
facilities.

It really depends on how quickly you want ot be behind the wheel of a
car, but all around Schaumburg is a better place, plus when you want to
hit the lakefront getting into the I-290 corridor (Class B corridor
between O'hare and Midway), and the only way to "break through" to the
lakefront, is a 8 nautical mile flight, from Lewis it's about 20 since
you have to make a big circle.

- Rick

Rick wrote:
*****
Actually, a 20 minute drive from Schaumburg to the Loop is very, very,
very quick, dangerously so, and probably impossible...unless you're the
Blues Brothers. Mere mortals should plan on an hour, more or less,
depending on just where in Chicago you're going.
*****

I thought that didn't jibe with the map. Of course, I *do* have half a
pack of cigarettes. ;-)


Chad Speer
PP-ASEL, IA
ATCS, Kansas City ARTCC

Rick wrote:
Actually, a 20 minute drive from Schaumburg to the Loop is very, very, very
quick, dangerously so, and probably impossible...unless you're the Blues
Brothers. Mere mortals should plan on an hour, more or less, depending on
just where in Chicago you're going.

The loop? I didn't say loop, I used to work on School Street in Chicago
and lived in Schaumburg, I was thinking Schaumburg to School street in
light traffic.

Although the idea of getting to the loop in 20 minutes sounds tempting,
maybe if someone put an airport on the lakefront that could cater to
charter and private flights to benefit the attractiveness of the city
for the business community would make that possible.

Ideas, ideas.

Well, thanks everyone for all your great advice. I have a much better
picture of the area's airports and what to expect.

I think we'll fly into Midway since it's only a two night visit and we
don't want to waste time in transit or inconvenience our hosts. I'll
double check the fees this week, but it sounds like a fuel purchase
takes some of the sting out. No problem.

Now I'll just have to remember to be sharp on the radio so I don't get
put in the penalty box by approach. We don't have no stinkin' penalty
boxes at Kansas City Center, but I hear Chicago loves them. Maybe I
should let my wife do the talking. Nobody would dare mess with her.
;-)


Chad Speer
PP-ASEL, IA
ATCS, Kansas City ARTCC

wrote:

It seems pretty much SOP that in a spam-can flying IFR anywhere near the Chicago Bravo that you will almost
*always* be vectored almost to Iowa (Well, at least Beloit and Rockford, IL).


Thats been my observation. I guess my question is WHY... Especially
when im so low and so far outside the Class Bravo that I can't possibly
be in the way of approaching traffic on a southbound leg.

ANybody ever get a tour of the Chicago TRACON?

Brian

"bdl" wrote in message
ps.com...

wrote:

It seems pretty much SOP that in a spam-can flying IFR anywhere near the
Chicago Bravo that you will almost
*always* be vectored almost to Iowa (Well, at least Beloit and Rockford,
IL).


Thats been my observation. I guess my question is WHY... Especially
when im so low and so far outside the Class Bravo that I can't possibly
be in the way of approaching traffic on a southbound leg.

ANybody ever get a tour of the Chicago TRACON?

Brian


One of the problems is that DuPage sits just to the west. If the traffic at
O'Hare is just right, they will sometimes let you go over the top of DuPage.
Otherwise, they will take you not only west of the lower layers of the class
B but far enough west so that they can keep you well clear of DuPage.

The best that you can do VFR is squeeze between DuPage and the class B. It's
a nice tour. Even that feels way too far west, if you are headed southeast.

I just chalk it up to the experience of IFR flying. After all, the only real
reason to endure such "hardship" is if it is real IFR. Otherwise, cancel and
go visual. I just quietly motor wherever they want me to go - as long as I
end up at my destination.

-------------------------------
Travis
Lake N3094P
PWK

Travis Marlatte wrote:

One of the problems is that DuPage sits just to the west. If the traffic at
O'Hare is just right, they will sometimes let you go over the top of DuPage.
Otherwise, they will take you not only west of the lower layers of the class
B but far enough west so that they can keep you well clear of DuPage.

Thanks, and I haven't looked at the sectional real close but thats
likely the reason.

I just chalk it up to the experience of IFR flying. After all, the only real
reason to endure such "hardship" is if it is real IFR. Otherwise, cancel and
go visual. I just quietly motor wherever they want me to go - as long as I
end up at my destination.

Yeah I heard you. It was more of the "heck, why do they have me on a
270 vector STILL?" I wanna go south! I'm /G pick a point on the map,
I'll go there. It's nice and flat around here, I'm high enough to not
be an issue with any towers, but low enough that I shouldn't be in
anybody's approach path.

Even requested a more southerly vector from Chicago Center (I had been
on a 270 vector for that long) and it was at least another 15 minutes
before I could be turned south.

Not complaining, was just curious as to the "box" ATC was working in.

I think the next time, I'll be departing VFR (weather permitting) with
a filed IFR clearance originating further down the road. When doing
cross countries I like to be in the system. It lets my family track me
on flightaware.com, I know I'll get flight following, and as you said,
I can always cancel.

Thanks for the info.

Brian

"bdl" writes:
Yeah I heard you. It was more of the "heck, why do they have me on a
270 vector STILL?" I wanna go south! I'm /G pick a point on the map,
I'll go there. It's nice and flat around here, I'm high enough to not
be an issue with any towers, but low enough that I shouldn't be in
anybody's approach path.

If you pass by some high rocks and start seeing an
endless stretch of water ahead of you, you have
probably been sent a bit too far west.

Even requested a more southerly vector from Chicago Center (I had been
on a 270 vector for that long) and it was at least another 15 minutes
before I could be turned south.

On an airline flight departing LAX, we were vectored west
over the ocean. After quite some time, the pilot told
the passengers that ATC had promised we could turn
east some time before getting to Hawaii.

Not complaining, was just curious as to the "box" ATC was working in.

I think the next time, I'll be departing VFR (weather permitting) with
a filed IFR clearance originating further down the road. When doing
cross countries I like to be in the system. It lets my family track me
on flightaware.com, I know I'll get flight following, and as you said,
I can always cancel.