Not to sound like an F-22 cheerleader but I thought this was interesting. . .

On Tue, 18 May 2004 20:20:21 -0400, Yeff wrote:

On Wed, 19 May 2004 00:57:56 +0100, phil hunt wrote:

What is "silent sentry"?

From http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/jaws/sentry.pdf

The heart of Silent Sentry is its innovative Passive Coherent Location
(PCL) technology developed by Lockheed Martin Mission Systems, which uses
everyday broadcast signals, such as those for television and radio, to
illuminate, detect and track objects.

Just like the celldar system from Roke Manor then...

cheers

A passive detection system for U.S.
government civil agency and military purposes, Silent Sentry transmits no
radio frequency (RF) energy as conventional radar does and has no RF
"signature" to alert enemy threats. Instead, it can use the energy that
already exists in airspace for detection purposes, and does not adversely
affect or harm the environment.

On Tue, 18 May 2004 17:26:58 -0400, "Paul F Austin"
wrote:


"David Pugh" wrote
"Scott Ferrin" wrote
"They never get into dogfights, so it makes no difference," Secretary
Roche said. "The fact that (the Raptor) flies very high, very stealthy
and at (Mach 1.6) without afterburner makes it very tough for anybody
else to have a fire control solution. The F-15s, with very good
radars, were not able to pick up and understand where the F/A-22s
were, and the F/A-22 was looking at the F-15s all the time."

I wonder how it would do against Mig-29s with their IRST? It probably
wouldn't make much difference (even if the Migs knew where the F/A-22 was
they probably couldn't get a missile lock) but it might make for a more
realistic test.

People are missing something here. M1.6 and high altitude for long periods
makes it difficult for_any_fighter to get a fire control solution,
regardless of detectability. Or at least that's what some of the fighter
drivers said here about doing (or trying to do) intercepts on MiG-25s some
years back.


Not to mention the SR-71 :-) Twice as fast as the Raptor, four miles
higher. . .forty years ago.




The envelope for a successful intercept is small and once the
nil detection range for fire control radars gets folded in...


Compare the "average interceptor" these days with the "heavies" and it
skews it even more. The Mig-31 and F-14 were both designed with big
radars, big missiles, and fast to boot. Let's see an F-16 or Rafale
lug a thousand pound AAM up to Mach 2 or better. I'd be interested to
know how well a missile like the AIM-120 or your typical dogfight
missile would fair at 65k to 70k feet altitude. Most missiles
designed to do much manuevering at high altitudes have (had) bigger
wings to deal with the thinner air. Just look at AA-6, AA-9, Phoenix,
AIM-47, SA-5, Nike Hercules, and so forth. The "upper-right" corner
of the envelope became less and less in vogue over the years so it
wasn't that big of a deal but now you have everything geared to hit
aircraft flying below 50k for the most part. Makes me wonder what
kind of effect it has overall. Probably not much in the big picture I
would guess since there never will be huge numbers of Raptors but
still I wonder would even the latest AIM-120 have had much luck
against an SR-71




It's all very well to apply handwavium multistatic techology that you just
happen to have in your hip pocket but how are you going to guide a weapon
using it? Inquiring minds...

Just like the celldar system from Roke Manor ...

Which is a subsidiary of German electronics giant Siemens.

The heart of Silent Sentry is its innovative Passive Coherent Location
(PCL) technology developed by Lockheed Martin Mission Systems, which uses
everyday broadcast signals, such as those for television and radio, to
illuminate, detect and track objects.

BTW (West) Germans were first to devolop a multi static detection and tracking
system in 70s .Even before Firefly!.

Just like the celldar system from Roke Manor then...


Roke Manor (Siemens) system is optimized aganist stealth aircreaft at medium
altitudes,whereas Silent Sentry is also very effective aganist next generation
stealthy cruise missiles that employ terrain masking in addition to stealth.

John Cook wrote:

Just like the celldar system from Roke Manor then...

Looking for a hole in the air that's quieter than it should
be, right ?

"Paul F Austin" wrote:

It's all very well to apply handwavium multistatic techology that you just
happen to have in your hip pocket but how are you going to guide a weapon
using it? Inquiring minds...

Home On Silence targeting ? (hahaha)

It's all very well to apply handwavium multistatic techology that you just
happen to have in your hip pocket but how are you going to guide a weapon
using it? Inquiring minds...


You can kill easily any stealth bomber that you can detect,track and even image
for ATR purposes at long ranges, even a F-86 can do the job easily.
But the real beauty of multistatics is the ability of tracking targets without
alerting them.
Also completely passive nature of tracking makes receiver/processor units,by
far the most expensive part of any multistatic system,virtually immune to HARM
type type attacks.

"Denyav" wrote in message
...
It's all very well to apply handwavium multistatic techology that you
just
happen to have in your hip pocket but how are you going to guide a weapon
using it? Inquiring minds...


You can kill easily any stealth bomber that you can detect,track and even
image
for ATR purposes at long ranges, even a F-86 can do the job easily.
But the real beauty of multistatics is the ability of tracking targets
without
alerting them.
Also completely passive nature of tracking makes receiver/processor
units,by
far the most expensive part of any multistatic system,virtually immune to
HARM
type type attacks.

Nope it just puts civilian transmitters on the target list.

Keith

Nope it just puts civilian transmitters on the target list.

and turns your target list into a thick "target book" even if we assume that
planes could safely reach HARM firing range while they tracked continously by
their opponents.(not very likely).
BTW you must also shut down or bomb your own transmitters too,military or
civilian, for the best results !.
Good Luck.