Getting a little sick of it all

In article ,
writes:

As a certificated technician, performing what is defined under the CFR
as "maintenence" or an "inspection" on a US type-certificated
aircraft, I am required to do certain things. As the owner/operator of
the aircraft, you are required to do certain things.

Again, under the CFR, after completing an "inspection", a certificated
technician/authorized inspector is required to make either an
"airworthy" or "unairworthy" entry in "the maintenance record of that
equipment". This rather simple entry is clearly defined in the regs.


I'm not trying to be difficult and I sure hate ****ing contests. But this says
to me that on a prebuy where the inspecting person (an A&P or an A&P/IA) is
inspecting the airplane AND the logs, they could put an unairworthy entry into
the logs that would ground the plane and put you in a significat position of
weakness in the negotiation. So do you hold the logs while they are inspected
and slap his hand if he picks up a pen G. My concern is with a dishonest
inspection with the aim to gain negoation position.

Chuck

"Javier Henderson" wrote in message
...
Ray Andraka writes:

Sorry, but I do get a kick out of flying instruments. There's not
much like coming out of an overcast with the runway right in front
of you. Climbing up on top of a rainy day into bright sunshine
is quite a kick too. Flying in and out of clouds, and the
rainbows and the cloud canyons.... Thanks, but these things
just can't be beat and then I can enjoy the earth on days when you
vfr only folks are dodging the 20 hour a year yahoos.

OK, one of those 'oh mah GAWD am I glad I can fly' moments was the
first time I took off at night into a 2000' thick marine layer. Once I
popped up on top, I suddenly was staring at an absolutely beautiful
universe. Totally uplifting and incredibly rewarding.

It's been like that every time I've done that since.

Nearest thing to a religious experience I ever had doing that and thought
that whoever invented the sky was some smart guy.

On 07 Mar 2004 16:37:12 GMT, (PaulaJay1) wrote:

snip

I'm not trying to be difficult and I sure hate ****ing contests. But this says
to me that on a prebuy where the inspecting person (an A&P or an A&P/IA) is
inspecting the airplane AND the logs, they could put an unairworthy entry into
the logs that would ground the plane and put you in a significat position of
weakness in the negotiation. So do you hold the logs while they are inspected
and slap his hand if he picks up a pen G. My concern is with a dishonest
inspection with the aim to gain negoation position.

You're not being "difficult", and I always enjoy a good ****ing
contest.

From my earlier post:

BTW, a prebuy is not an "inspection", and typically very few aspects
of it could be considered "maintenance".

My typical maintenance record entry after a prebuy (which is not by
CFR definition an "inspection") consists of "R/replaced oil filter
with new p/n XYZ, cleaned oil suction strainer, leak check performed.
R/reinstalled lower spark plugs." If the seller wanted the compression
check written in, I'd do it, if they didn't, I didn't.

Your concern is a valid one, but unless an annual or 100 hr inspection
is being performed, not truly an issue in regard to the regs.

I once had a customer show up with 2 1/2 pages of gripes written into
the airframe log book in red ink. That was one instance in 20 years. I
contacted the local FSDO, and informed them that I was removing the
entry from the aircraft maintenance records. They didn't "like" it,
but had no argument under the CFR.

TC

On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 04:26:08 GMT, "G.R. Patterson III"
wrote:



wrote:

As I think you are inferring, the CFR cannot be used as justification
for placing "the laundry list from hell" into any aircraft maintenance
record.

That is not what I am "inferring"; that's what I *said*.


With regard to what you "said", the "anyone to enter anything" portion
is contrary to the regs, as I pointed out by example; "logs" and
"ground an aircraft" are not defined relevant terms.

TC

50-60 hours a year is not that much, last year I flew around 200 hours, and the
year before was almost 250, I am at about 35 hours so far this year, several
flights have had to be canceled because of weather but as soon as summer hits I
will fly allot more.


Robert Bates wrote:

I agree with Jay. Anyone who won't let a mechanic look at it is hiding
something. Just thinking about it, 8000 hours for a 28 year old airplane is
285 hours per year. Everything I have ever read has said that a highly
active pilot only flies 50-60 hours per year.

Good Luck in your search.

"MRQB" wrote in message
...
Yes, its getting a little frustrating I think I am going to quit looking
for
a while just to let my nerves settle a bit.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:iix1c.470784$na.1115474@attbi_s04...
I am getting sick and tired of rude, arrogant, sellers funny thing I
just
had a guy refuse to let my mechanic do a pre buy said he could not
trust
my
mechanic to give an honest opinion and that if I cannot decide for my
self
if I wanted it or not then I don't need an airplane and don't need to
be
an
airplane owner or a pilot with poor decision making skills.

Yeah, I've run into a couple of sellers who didn't want my mechanic
looking
at their planes.

I immediately assumed they were hiding something, and told 'em to pound
salt. But don't worry -- they are probably hiding something anyway, so
you've lost nothing by walking away.

IMHO, anyone who buys from someone like this is an idiot, and deserves
to
be
parted from his or her money. Caveat emptor.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

some of those scuzzy days are the best flying weather. super smooth.

Ray Andraka wrote:

I often don't fly on those days, exactly because the goobers are out in
spades. Besides, with the inst rating, I prefer to fly on the scuzzy
days and save the gorgeous days for doing things outside.

Dan Luke wrote:

"Jay Honeck" wrote:
2. Do you feel comfortable sharing the sky with someone
who flies just 2 hours per month?

It takes some of the fun out of flying on a perfect, windless, sunny
Saturday that's neither too hot nor too cold. That's when the real
goobers come out. It can be fun listening to ATC dealing with them,
though.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM
(remove pants to reply by email)

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

and dont forget, zipping along in clouds and you start to lose power
because of possible induction ice, then you hit a 1500-2000 fpm
downdraft, watch your air speed indicator jump up in the yellow, cant
see anything except black cloud.
thats how my flight was over the weekend...that flight was allot of
work.

Ray Andraka wrote:

Sorry, but I do get a kick out of flying instruments. There's not
much like coming out of an overcast with the runway right in front
of you. Climbing up on top of a rainy day into bright sunshine
is quite a kick too. Flying in and out of clouds, and the
rainbows and the cloud canyons.... Thanks, but these things
just can't be beat and then I can enjoy the earth on days when you
vfr only folks are dodging the 20 hour a year yahoos.

Jay Honeck wrote:

Besides, with the inst rating, I prefer to fly on the scuzzy
days and save the gorgeous days for doing things outside.

Man, no offense, but that's kinda warped.

I hope flying never gets that way for me.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

shoot, we just sold our house, lived in it 2 years and made a $100,000 profit,
the buyer bought it for asking price, anything he wanted to do we made it happen.
period.
they closed on the house 2 weeks after they made an offer, offer was made 12
hours after we listed it.

SD wrote:

On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 19:17:11 -0800, "MRQB" wrote:

Is it just me or is the whole aviation industry like this I have not found 1
airplane yet that some one was not hiding something or trying to hide.

I don't think it is just the aviation industry, I think it is a new
mentality that we are seeing. About 4 weeks ago I put a contract on a
house for almost a half million dollars. I made arrangements for the
next week to have the house inspected, scheduled it with the owners
and real-estate people. We all agreed on what day/time to meet. Well
we all got there and the owner refused to let our inspector do
anything. He wasn't allowed to flip a light switch, move curtains to
check outlets.... NOTHING. I looked at my realtor and told her to
terminate the contract right then. The next day the owner's realtor
called and asked if we could try again. I laid down my terms and told
him that I also wanted a structural engineer to look at the property
and gave him the engineers' available schedule. He called back and
told me the owner would only allow him to come look at the house on X
day which happened to be one of the 2 days the engineer was not
available that whole week. I told him that was not acceptable and
that there will be no further negotiations and the deal was off.

I guess some people just don't want my money!!! Odd.

Scott

Nobody performs any required inspection/mainenance on a plane of mine except
the mechanic of my choosing. A buyer can have anyone they like look at it.
They
have no authority of any kind to alter MY property. ie: MY logs.

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 20:48:25 GMT, "G.R. Patterson III"
wrote:


As a certificated technician, performing what is defined under the CFR
as "maintenence" or an "inspection" on a US type-certificated
aircraft, I am required to do certain things. As the owner/operator of
the aircraft, you are required to do certain things.


TC

You allow the inspection of logs first. THEN the aircraft inspection. You
hold
the logs.

This may all sound trivial .. but I've seen it happen and I've seen sellers
have
their aircraft held hostage at another airport while the buyer and his A&P
strong armed them.

" I'm not trying to be difficult and I sure hate ****ing contests. But
this says
to me that on a prebuy where the inspecting person (an A&P or an A&P/IA)
is
inspecting the airplane AND the logs, they could put an unairworthy entry
into
the logs that would ground the plane and put you in a significat position
of
weakness in the negotiation. So do you hold the logs while they are
inspected
and slap his hand if he picks up a pen G. My concern is with a
dishonest
inspection with the aim to gain negoation position.

Chuck