Buying a plane versus renting

You bought on the wrong side of the depreciation curve. I bought my
Cherokee Six 9 years ago for $44.5K. It was appraised last fall for
$87K, and I've put about 1000 hours on it in the mean time. Granted,
I've put some money into it, including an unexpected engine overhaul
last year, but I would have spent over 2x what I've spent for
maintenance and upgrades renting a lesser airplane for the same hours,
plus would not have been able to go off for a week somewhere with the
plane. The airplane has far surpassed any of my market investments, and
it was never intended as an investment.

ArtP wrote:

I bought a 2002 Cirrus SR20 "C" for $226,000. I just sold it for
$145,000. It cost an additional $43,000 for insurance, hangar, and
maintenance. It was flown 250 hours (50 of that was to and from the
service center which was in a different state). You can do the math,
but bottom line it was the worst "investment" I ever made.

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

In article ,
ArtP wrote:
I bought a 2002 Cirrus SR20 "C" for $226,000. I just sold it for
$145,000.

I can't help it, I still read that and think, "Huh, I could have bought
a 2002 SR20..." despite your maintenance headaches.

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/

Yeah, but you knew that going in. New planes always depreciate for awhile.



ArtP wrote:
I bought a 2002 Cirrus SR20 "C" for $226,000. I just sold it for
$145,000. It cost an additional $43,000 for insurance, hangar, and
maintenance. It was flown 250 hours (50 of that was to and from the
service center which was in a different state). You can do the math,
but bottom line it was the worst "investment" I ever made.

"RD" wrote in message
...
Just wondering if anyone has some experience on the above subject. I'm
looking at building up some time (500 hours or more) within the next
couple
of years. My two options are to buy an older 172/Arrow etc or just to keep
renting which is very expensive.

I'm reminded of the old ditty "If you fly it, f**k it or float it, you're
better off renting".

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 00:01:15 GMT, (Ben Jackson) wrote:

In article ,
ArtP wrote:
I bought a 2002 Cirrus SR20 "C" for $226,000. I just sold it for
$145,000.

I can't help it, I still read that and think, "Huh, I could have bought
a 2002 SR20..." despite your maintenance headaches.

That's what makes the free market system so great. One person's
nightmare is another person's dream.

lid wrote:

Buying vs. renting is not an apples-to-apples comparison, just as
flying vs. driving is not. There are many factors for each that don't
apply to the other.

you also get a different set of benefits, which is what most of us
think of as the "joy of ownership". For most people the joys far
outweigh the risks.


Right on point.

Attempting to justify ownership on dollar costs alone doesn't tell the tale.

Owning is expensive, no ands or buts about it. But there are
intangibles, like always knowing the airplane will be available, and
knowing you'll be able to fly the airplane you expect to fly, and
knowing what condition the last pilot (you) left the airplane
in....there's no way to put a price on that stuff.

Showing up at the airport to fly somebody else's rental piece of junk
would never get it for me, I've been there, done that, and I've been
willing to pay the piper (pun intended) for a long time now, for the
privilege of flying my OWN plane.

"CriticalMass" wrote in message
...
lid wrote:

Buying vs. renting is not an apples-to-apples comparison, just as
flying vs. driving is not. There are many factors for each that don't
apply to the other.

you also get a different set of benefits, which is what most of us
think of as the "joy of ownership". For most people the joys far
outweigh the risks.


Right on point.

Attempting to justify ownership on dollar costs alone doesn't tell the
tale.

Owning is expensive, no ands or buts about it. But there are
intangibles, like always knowing the airplane will be available, and
knowing you'll be able to fly the airplane you expect to fly, and
knowing what condition the last pilot (you) left the airplane
in....there's no way to put a price on that stuff.

Showing up at the airport to fly somebody else's rental piece of junk
would never get it for me, I've been there, done that, and I've been
willing to pay the piper (pun intended) for a long time now, for the
privilege of flying my OWN plane.


Except when the airplane is away on its annual or has a major problem,
knowing that if I want to fly I have to hire a piece of junk.

There is nothing more frustrating than having a plane and it not be
available to fly.

On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 08:52:18 -0000, "S Green"
wrote:

There is nothing more frustrating than having a plane and it not be
available to fly.

Amen.

S Green wrote:

Except when the airplane is away on its annual or has a major problem,
knowing that if I want to fly I have to hire a piece of junk.

There is nothing more frustrating than having a plane and it not be
available to fly.


Granted.

My last "annual" started last June (2003).

That "annual" turned into a MOH (Mattituck).

My airplane is STILL inop, due to enormous delays in just getting the
damned thing back from the "annual" shop, and due to added unanticipated
eventualities, like the factory fuel flow gauge going tits up on the
first flight post MOH, and the front crank seal leaking out of MOH, and
again, after one replacement.

I nevertheless stand by my other post. Am I lowering my standards by
going to the local flight school and renting their doggy 152s just to
get some airtime? Nope.

Whatever the frustrations (and owning is full of 'em), it's MY plane, or
NO plane, for ME, that is.

RD,

One thing you did not tell us is what you plan to do AFTER 2 years and 500
hours.

If you do not plan to trade up, then do not buy new. Bonus depreciation is a
great deal, but if it gets recaptured, it ain't so great. Trading up can
avoid recapture.

If you do plan to trade up, maybe you should rent a little longer, until you
feel you are ready for your "target plane"

A172 vs. an arrow is not the same, did you mean archer?

Are you really just building hours, or trying to get somewhere? If you are
trying to get somewhere, you will be flying in IMC. You will want something
safe and efficient.

An Arrow may keep you happy for 500 hours, a 172 maybe not. If you are
seriously traveling, I would get something nicer,likely something faster.
Definitely more fuel efficient.

Definitely get up to date avionics, and an AP. With that much time in the
plane, the workload savings is definitely worth the bucks.

The only glass cockpit I like is the Garmin, due to its ability to reset.
If these things live up to the press, Garmin will greatly increase its
market share. If you are not set in your scanhabits, you might want to get
a glass cockpit.

If you really are going to put 500 hours on and then sell, I would lean away
from brand new. That kind of hours will depreciate a new plane pretty well.
You can sometimes pick up nearly new planes at a steal. Just don't buy a
lemon like Art's. If you are buying new, and plan to put those hours on, go
glass.

the more you tell the group, the more we can likely help you narrow down the
choices.