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ADSB panel display



 
 
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  #11  
Old October 9th 18, 04:09 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tango Eight
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Posts: 636
Default ADSB panel display

On Monday, October 8, 2018 at 9:39:12 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Monday, October 8, 2018 at 5:38:39 PM UTC-7, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Monday, October 8, 2018 at 5:14:16 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, October 8, 2018 at 12:55:09 PM UTC-7, Ben Hirashima wrote:
Have you seen an iPhone X display in sunlight? I find it perfectly readable. Technology is constantly improving...

thank you Ben, I did look at an iphone X at max brightness, but didn't consider it any better than my iphone 8+. I do manage to use Foreflight on my iphone 8+, but it is a struggle, not what I call 'easily readable' in my cockpit, as my LX moving map is. I'm in Nevada, where the sun is very bright, even with a blue canopy. I want a panel mounted, dedicated, bright display for adsb targets.


PowerFLARM connected to a AirAvionic ATD is likely the best you will get there.

No UAT In/TIS-B/ADS-R support, but them are the tradeoffs.


Its enormously more expensive to buy the AirAvionic adsb/flarm receiver that works with their ATD57, so I won't be doing that. I suspect AirAvionic is not providing an adsb protocol is some business reason they have to support Flarm. In my opinion, in the US, Flarm is a harmful distraction of money better spent on adsb.


So what happens when 20 ADS-B equipped gliders share a thermal?

If the answer is "I don't care, because I don't fly in gaggles" then it would be helpful to know this so the rest of the community can give your opinion all the weight it deserves.

T8
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  #12  
Old October 9th 18, 04:59 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Ramy[_2_]
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Posts: 382
Default ADSB panel display

Since you fly in Nevada the best thing to do is install powerflarm and connect to your LXNAV which will show you ADSB traffic as well. This is my setup and I see ADSB traffic all the time, in addition to glider traffic.

Ramy

  #13  
Old October 9th 18, 05:22 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 418
Default ADSB panel display

On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 10:59:07 AM UTC-5, Ramy wrote:
Since you fly in Nevada the best thing to do is install powerflarm and connect to your LXNAV which will show you ADSB traffic as well. This is my setup and I see ADSB traffic all the time, in addition to glider traffic.

Ramy


Towing behind Keith' ADS-B equipped Cessna this year I had this new and awful warning sound from my PFlarm that stopped after release. I'm still trying to configure my TT22 and TN72 combo for ADS-B out but I have the same concern as T8 expressed.
J7
  #14  
Old October 9th 18, 06:12 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
JS[_5_]
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Default ADSB panel display

On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 9:22:12 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 10:59:07 AM UTC-5, Ramy wrote:
Since you fly in Nevada the best thing to do is install powerflarm and connect to your LXNAV which will show you ADSB traffic as well. This is my setup and I see ADSB traffic all the time, in addition to glider traffic.

Ramy


Towing behind Keith' ADS-B equipped Cessna this year I had this new and awful warning sound from my PFlarm that stopped after release. I'm still trying to configure my TT22 and TN72 combo for ADS-B out but I have the same concern as T8 expressed.
J7


The same for me behind the Pawnee at Jean.
Perhaps it makes you take lower tows... Could be a bonus!
We knew this was coming for years. ADS-B alerts are a proximity warning, not an intelligent system.
At least we can discontinue processing Mode C alerts.
Jim
  #15  
Old October 9th 18, 07:22 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
2KA
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Default ADSB panel display

If I understand things correctly, the Powerflarm/LXNAV solution isn't complete. You will see 1090ES ADS-B traffic (which includes aircraft like most airliners and others with Mode-S transponders and approved GPS sources), but you won't see UAT ADS-B traffic, which includes lots of GA folks.

So I think you still need proximity warnings, even after the mandate, if you intend to rely only on PowerFlarm.

Someone please correct if I'm wrong.

Lynn Alley
"2KA"

  #16  
Old October 9th 18, 07:41 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Default ADSB panel display



So what happens when 20 ADS-B equipped gliders share a thermal?

If the answer is "I don't care, because I don't fly in gaggles" then it would be helpful to know this so the rest of the community can give your opinion all the weight it deserves.

T8




T8,

My answer would be the same if some, or even all of the gliders, had flarm: in a shared thermal, I hope all 20 glider pilots would have their attention out of the cockpit.

Both systems clearly have advantages, but it seems obvious to me that the future is with adsb, in the USA, and since both are expensive, it will be rare to buy both systems. Flarm's collision prediction is a help in thermals, but that assumes everyone has flarm, and there are no dead spots in antenna reception.




  #17  
Old October 9th 18, 07:58 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 35
Default ADSB panel display

On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 8:59:07 AM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
Since you fly in Nevada the best thing to do is install powerflarm and connect to your LXNAV which will show you ADSB traffic as well. This is my setup and I see ADSB traffic all the time, in addition to glider traffic.

Ramy


Ramy, thanks, I did consider that option, but my expectation was that a dedicated traffic display would be clearer, and important enough to justify another hole in the panel. Do you find that traffic stands out clearly on the LX map display, or is traffic lost in the screen clutter?
  #18  
Old October 9th 18, 08:10 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Default ADSB panel display

On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 11:23:01 AM UTC-7, 2KA wrote:
If I understand things correctly, the Powerflarm/LXNAV solution isn't complete. You will see 1090ES ADS-B traffic (which includes aircraft like most airliners and others with Mode-S transponders and approved GPS sources), but you won't see UAT ADS-B traffic, which includes lots of GA folks.

So I think you still need proximity warnings, even after the mandate, if you intend to rely only on PowerFlarm.

Someone please correct if I'm wrong.

Lynn Alley
"2KA"



If the concern is with power traffic (and it is), its important that the power traffic see the glider as well as vice versa, so a transponder is necessary in a glider.
  #19  
Old October 9th 18, 09:41 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Ramy[_2_]
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Posts: 382
Default ADSB panel display

On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 11:58:26 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 8:59:07 AM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
Since you fly in Nevada the best thing to do is install powerflarm and connect to your LXNAV which will show you ADSB traffic as well. This is my setup and I see ADSB traffic all the time, in addition to glider traffic.

Ramy


Ramy, thanks, I did consider that option, but my expectation was that a dedicated traffic display would be clearer, and important enough to justify another hole in the panel. Do you find that traffic stands out clearly on the LX map display, or is traffic lost in the screen clutter?


I find it clear enough in my LX9000, although you will need to adjust the zoom to see the traffic. A dedicated display is ideal, but so far I didnt feel it justifies another hole. Indeed Powerflarm is not complete, it does not detect UAT. But most of the traffic I am seeing has 1090, I think this is still the majority. And powerflarm will still give you mode C proximity warning for the rest of the traffic.
As for ADS-B warnings in gaggles, this is precisely why you may want powerflarm. When powerflarm detects both powerflarm and ADS-B it suppresses the ADS-B warning.

Regarding tow planes ADS-B warning, this is indeed a problem. Since they usually dont have powerflarm, you will get proximity warning through the tow. No solution for that other then lowering the volume or pressing the temporary dismiss button which is available in the LXNAV.

Ramy
  #20  
Old October 9th 18, 11:48 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Darryl Ramm
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Posts: 2,192
Default ADSB panel display

On Monday, October 8, 2018 at 6:39:12 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, October 8, 2018 at 5:38:39 PM UTC-7, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Monday, October 8, 2018 at 5:14:16 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, October 8, 2018 at 12:55:09 PM UTC-7, Ben Hirashima wrote:
Have you seen an iPhone X display in sunlight? I find it perfectly readable. Technology is constantly improving...

thank you Ben, I did look at an iphone X at max brightness, but didn't consider it any better than my iphone 8+. I do manage to use Foreflight on my iphone 8+, but it is a struggle, not what I call 'easily readable' in my cockpit, as my LX moving map is. I'm in Nevada, where the sun is very bright, even with a blue canopy. I want a panel mounted, dedicated, bright display for adsb targets.


PowerFLARM connected to a AirAvionic ATD is likely the best you will get there.

No UAT In/TIS-B/ADS-R support, but them are the tradeoffs.


Its enormously more expensive to buy the AirAvionic adsb/flarm receiver that works with their ATD57, so I won't be doing that. I suspect AirAvionic is not providing an adsb protocol is some business reason they have to support Flarm. In my opinion, in the US, Flarm is a harmful distraction of money better spent on adsb.


I mentioned the PowerFLARM and AirAvionic ATD (ATD57) display. In the USA if you want to get a traffic display to a FLARM serial compatible display today that is how you do it. There is no AirAvionic FLARM device similar to PowerFLARM actually FCC approved for use in the USA and AirAvionic don't seem to care much about USA/FAA ADS-B requirements or FCC device approval so I'd not hold my breath there. The next FLARM device I expect to be FCC approved in the USA is the LXNav PowerMouse.

The PowerMouse uses a later generation FLARM ADS-B chipset than PowerFLARM and should support ADS-R and hopefully TIS-B. And hopefully LXNav will only sell the version with ADS-B (as well as FLARM() in the USA.

The choice is yours, if you want to use a FLARM display you need to drive that with a device that talks FLARM serial protocol, if you want to talk to a GDL compatible display you can use a suitable GDL compatible ADS-B source, But I don't undated why a glider flying in glider-busy Nevada would not want a FLARM system more so than ADS-B *In*. Transponder and ADS-B Out give you lots of protection to other aircraft as well.
 




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