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#51
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Pitch vs. trim in flight phases
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#52
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Pitch vs. trim in flight phases
Robert Moore writes:
In FAR Part 23, The FAA specifies the pressures that MUST exist, and how it MUST vary with airspeed. Jim just said that early FBW didn't have feedback. Who's right? |
#53
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Pitch vs. trim in flight phases
"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in
: On May 16, 12:19 pm, gatt wrote: Ken S. Tucker wrote: Quick question, (it's been awhile since I've piloted) is the trim (Cessna 152) in the center, right of the pilot, and has zero mark to be set null in pre-flight? Correct. (Well it has a "takeoff position" which is more or less center.) In the '74 PA-28R I rent it's between the seats and harder to see, and takeoff position is about "a quarter-inch back" on the slot since there's no visible mark. I don't like the trim-wheel there. The first time I flew in the right seat and reached for the trim handle I cracked my knuckle against the door. Ok thanks. I was ok with the location of the trim wheel, but the adjustment was too coarse for me, but I could be a bitchy sissy. My wheel was graduated, with a zero mark and did not quite give the fine adjustment I wanted. That could be cables out to the tail, I should have learned the mechanism! Good grief, he's criticising design now. Bertie |
#54
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Pitch vs. trim in flight phases
Nomen Nescio writes:
So you discount sensations because you're not interested? No, I discount them because (1) they are not important; (2) they vary considerably from one aircraft to another; and (3) they are unreliable and cannot be depended upon. Additionally, I get no pleasure from these sensations. Some people enjoy roller-coasters and midway rides; I don't. I do not have a thrill-seeking personality. My enjoyment comes from other aspects of aviation. |
#55
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Pitch vs. trim in flight phases
"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in
: On May 16, 9:55 am, gatt wrote: Mxsmanic wrote: In a small GA aircraft, in which phases of flight will you normally use mostly trim to adjust pitch, and in which phases will you normally mostly use the yoke? Good question for r.a.s. You don't want to use the trim to adjust pitch, just to relieve the control pressure. Electronic trim switches mounted to the yoke are a bad habit waiting to happen; they're disabled in a lot of training aircraft. Always remember "Pitch, power, trim." The Airplane Flying Handbook, FAA-H-8083-3A, states: "The pilot must avoid using the trim to establish or correct airplane attitude. The airplane attitude must be established and held first, then control pressures trimmed out so that the airplane will maintain the desired attitude in 'hands off' flight. Attempting to 'fly the airplane with trim tabs' is a common fault in basic flying technique even among experienced pilots." It's important for the pilot to feel the elevator pressure whereas with a trim tab you're delegating that to mechanical authority. Also, if you get out of the habit of knowing where your trim is set, you increase the likelihood of approaching an elevator trim stall in a missed approach or go-around. This can be demonstrated pretty well in MSFS2004--I think in the Mooney--by adjusting the elevator trim as if you were in full-flaps landing configuration and then adding full power; back-elevator trim will cause a radical nose-up pitch, exceeding the critical angle of attack. To avoid elevator trim stall the pilot must exert a great deal of forward pressure on the nose -and- retrim the airplane, and it has to be brisk and smooth. Whether by hand or electric motor, controlling it by trim is too slow. -c Quick question, (it's been awhile since I've piloted) is the trim (Cessna 152) in the center, right of the pilot, and has zero mark to be set null in pre-flight? Personally I had real friggin hassle with trim. I'd get to 4000' set a course for x-country, maybe an hour away, set cruise, then touch-up trim, to relieve yoke control. Well it never really worked for me. As soon as I thought I had it right, by Descent Indicator (no jokes guys, women of the opposite sex might be lurkin) would start wandering off zero. My habit became, set Trim slightly down and use my pinky pressure back on the yoke to keep my Descent Indicator at zero, with an occasional glance so I could enjoy the view and work nav. Ken PS: Kens Rule: Use your pinky to stop being InDescent, and use the rest of your fingers anyway you want. Descent indicator? You're a moron. Bertie |
#56
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Pitch vs. trim in flight phases
"Maxwell" luv2^fly99@cox.^net wrote in
: wrote in message news:2da21ff1-b22d-4dad-8ac7- . .. On May 16, 1:10 am, Nomen Nescio wrote: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Juevie bull**** snipped -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Thanks for contributing so many lines to the noise level. "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem". That was an ounce of prevention hoping to avoid the several pounds of cure that will certainly follow. Yeah, good luck with that fjukktard. Bertie |
#57
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Pitch vs. trim in flight phases
Mxsmanic wrote in
: writes: On aircraft that simulate it, the simulation is realistic. But I thought that nothing is the same as the real thing, therefore _any_ simulation is unacceptable. If that's not true, then there must be some simulations of flying that are just as realistic as the real thing. You can't have it both ways. Either simulation works, or it doesn't. In the early days of fly by wire airplanes without any control feedback, the airplane tended to wander about the sky the way simmers do. Simmers don't wander about the sky any more than real pilots. Which airplanes do you have in mind, specifically? Anthony, you're a moron. You don't know **** from shinola. -- Marty Shapiro Silicon Rallye Inc. (remove SPAMNOT to email me) |
#58
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Pitch vs. trim in flight phases
Mxsmanic wrote in
: Robert Moore writes: In FAR Part 23, The FAA specifies the pressures that MUST exist, and how it MUST vary with airspeed. Jim just said that early FBW didn't have feedback. Who's right? Anthony, you're a moron. You don't know **** from shinola and lack the mental capacity to comprehend what you've been told. Stick your head back up your ass. At least you'll be doing something useful for mankind when you do. |
#59
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Pitch vs. trim in flight phases
Mxsmanic wrote in
: Nomen Nescio writes: So you discount sensations because you're not interested? No, I discount them because (1) they are not important; (2) they vary considerably from one aircraft to another; and (3) they are unreliable and cannot be depended upon. Additionally, I get no pleasure from these sensations. Some people enjoy roller-coasters and midway rides; I don't. I do not have a thrill-seeking personality. My enjoyment comes from other aspects of aviation. BULL ****. You're a ****ing moron who doesn't know **** from shinola. You have no idea what aviation is. You just jerk off playing MSFS and think you're aviating. You're just a jerk jerking off. |
#60
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Pitch vs. trim in flight phases
Bertie the Bunyip wrote in
: "Ken S. Tucker" wrote in : On May 16, 9:55 am, gatt wrote: Mxsmanic wrote: In a small GA aircraft, in which phases of flight will you normally use mostly trim to adjust pitch, and in which phases will you normally mostly use the yoke? Good question for r.a.s. You don't want to use the trim to adjust pitch, just to relieve the control pressure. Electronic trim switches mounted to the yoke are a bad habit waiting to happen; they're disabled in a lot of training aircraft. Always remember "Pitch, power, trim." The Airplane Flying Handbook, FAA-H-8083-3A, states: "The pilot must avoid using the trim to establish or correct airplane attitude. The airplane attitude must be established and held first, then control pressures trimmed out so that the airplane will maintain the desired attitude in 'hands off' flight. Attempting to 'fly the airplane with trim tabs' is a common fault in basic flying technique even among experienced pilots." It's important for the pilot to feel the elevator pressure whereas with a trim tab you're delegating that to mechanical authority. Also, if you get out of the habit of knowing where your trim is set, you increase the likelihood of approaching an elevator trim stall in a missed approach or go-around. This can be demonstrated pretty well in MSFS2004--I think in the Mooney--by adjusting the elevator trim as if you were in full-flaps landing configuration and then adding full power; back-elevator trim will cause a radical nose-up pitch, exceeding the critical angle of attack. To avoid elevator trim stall the pilot must exert a great deal of forward pressure on the nose -and- retrim the airplane, and it has to be brisk and smooth. Whether by hand or electric motor, controlling it by trim is too slow. -c Quick question, (it's been awhile since I've piloted) is the trim (Cessna 152) in the center, right of the pilot, and has zero mark to be set null in pre-flight? Personally I had real friggin hassle with trim. I'd get to 4000' set a course for x-country, maybe an hour away, set cruise, then touch-up trim, to relieve yoke control. Well it never really worked for me. As soon as I thought I had it right, by Descent Indicator (no jokes guys, women of the opposite sex might be lurkin) would start wandering off zero. My habit became, set Trim slightly down and use my pinky pressure back on the yoke to keep my Descent Indicator at zero, with an occasional glance so I could enjoy the view and work nav. Ken PS: Kens Rule: Use your pinky to stop being InDescent, and use the rest of your fingers anyway you want. Descent indicator? You're a moron. Bertie Hey Bertie, maybe Ken will set the bow planes for emergency dive and use the depth meter to monitor his descent! |
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