Learning to weld with a non-aircraft project

Eventually I plan to build a tube-n-fabric aircraft, but now isn't the time.
However, I would like to start developing the skills that I will need.

I've been looking at kids playsets for our yard. Most of them are made from
redwood, and are quite expensive. Several thousand dollars for the more
complex ones. Pressure treated lumber is much cheaper, but I don't want my
kids crawling on it.

Today I got an idea. I could build a frame out of steel tubing, get it
powdercoated, and then deck it with the composite synthetic decking that is
becoming popular for backyard decks. Such a structure would be strong,
durable, impervious to the elements, and would give me an excuse to learn to
weld.

What are the minimum set of tools I'd need to buy to complete the project?
I know I'd need an OA torch. What tools would I need for the cutting,
shaping, and prepping of the steel tubing? Any other suggestions on
construction and materials, especially steel type?

In article ,
"Ed" wrote:

Eventually I plan to build a tube-n-fabric aircraft, but now isn't the time.
However, I would like to start developing the skills that I will need.

I've been looking at kids playsets for our yard. Most of them are made from
redwood, and are quite expensive. Several thousand dollars for the more
complex ones. Pressure treated lumber is much cheaper, but I don't want my
kids crawling on it.

Today I got an idea. I could build a frame out of steel tubing, get it
powdercoated, and then deck it with the composite synthetic decking that is
becoming popular for backyard decks. Such a structure would be strong,
durable, impervious to the elements, and would give me an excuse to learn to
weld.

What are the minimum set of tools I'd need to buy to complete the project?
I know I'd need an OA torch. What tools would I need for the cutting,
shaping, and prepping of the steel tubing? Any other suggestions on
construction and materials, especially steel type?



You could actually do it with nothing but a torch, hacksaw and file, but
I would recommend some magnetic holding clamps, a good bench sander, etc.

Ed,

Your sure you want OA? Why not MIG or TIG for welding?
I have access to all three and prefer to use MIG on steel (as its fast
and you don't go through the gas bottles like OA) and TIG
for every thing else. I use OA to remove bearings (ones
I don't want to re-use) and other heating purposes like softening up loctited
bolts.

As far as other tools a HF Cut-off saw is on the top of my list for
most used tools, as well as a grinding wheel to form the fish mouths
on the tubing for most joints.

See my engine link below to see how I used a MIG to make a engine mount for
a Soob.

I like your idea of using synthetic decking with a tube frame for a playset.
I can't tell you how many dry-rotted playsets (Redwood and other wood
construction) that I have seen here in Arizona. They all look fine until they
break.

Just my 2 cents.

--
Bart D. Hull

Tempe, Arizona

Check http://www.inficad.com/~bdhull/engine.html
for my Subaru Engine Conversion
Check http://www.inficad.com/~bdhull/fuselage.html
for Tango II I'm building.

Remove -nospam to reply via email.

Ed wrote:
Eventually I plan to build a tube-n-fabric aircraft, but now isn't the time.
However, I would like to start developing the skills that I will need.

I've been looking at kids playsets for our yard. Most of them are made from
redwood, and are quite expensive. Several thousand dollars for the more
complex ones. Pressure treated lumber is much cheaper, but I don't want my
kids crawling on it.

Today I got an idea. I could build a frame out of steel tubing, get it
powdercoated, and then deck it with the composite synthetic decking that is
becoming popular for backyard decks. Such a structure would be strong,
durable, impervious to the elements, and would give me an excuse to learn to
weld.

What are the minimum set of tools I'd need to buy to complete the project?
I know I'd need an OA torch. What tools would I need for the cutting,
shaping, and prepping of the steel tubing? Any other suggestions on
construction and materials, especially steel type?

Bart:

Was going OA mainly because it's cheap to buy a torch. I didn't want to
spend $300 for a MIG just to build a kid's playset. I'm many years away
from starting an aircraft.

What kind of grinding wheel ... a benchtop grinder, or an air grinder?


"Bart D. Hull" wrote in message
...
Ed,

Your sure you want OA? Why not MIG or TIG for welding?


As far as other tools a HF Cut-off saw is on the top of my list for
most used tools, as well as a grinding wheel to form the fish mouths
on the tubing for most joints.

Ed,

A benchtop grinder is REALLY useful. Be sure to get a big one (8" wheels and
1+ HP. (See other threads for the HP rating junk.)

I have a HF 1.5 HP bench grinder and it never bogs on grinding or polishing
with 8" wheels. Throw away the original wheels and get Norton wheels of your
favorite grit. Not only are they better balanced but they cut MUCH faster. I
read about this on this list and am a believer after I tried it.

I use the rol-loc wheels for grinding on a high speed air grinder. NICE but
not a necessary as a good bench grinder.

Bart
--
Bart D. Hull

Tempe, Arizona

Check http://www.inficad.com/~bdhull/engine.html
for my Subaru Engine Conversion
Check http://www.inficad.com/~bdhull/fuselage.html
for Tango II I'm building.

Remove -nospam to reply via email.

Ed wrote:
Bart:

Was going OA mainly because it's cheap to buy a torch. I didn't want to
spend $300 for a MIG just to build a kid's playset. I'm many years away
from starting an aircraft.

What kind of grinding wheel ... a benchtop grinder, or an air grinder?


"Bart D. Hull" wrote in message
...

Ed,

Your sure you want OA? Why not MIG or TIG for welding?



As far as other tools a HF Cut-off saw is on the top of my list for
most used tools, as well as a grinding wheel to form the fish mouths
on the tubing for most joints.

In Bart D. Hull wrote:
Ed,

Your sure you want OA? Why not MIG or TIG for welding?
I have access to all three and prefer to use MIG on steel (as its fast
and you don't go through the gas bottles like OA) and TIG
for every thing else. I use OA to remove bearings (ones
I don't want to re-use) and other heating purposes like softening up
loctited bolts.

A novice welder is far better off putting together his airplane using OA
rather than TIG or MIG. A google search will reveal that this has been
hashed out here many times in the past. Pay particular attention to
posts made by a guy called Highflier. I'm using TIG on my project, but
I am not a novice welder. No way would I use MIG for something I wanted
to fly in some day.

----------------------------------------------------
Del Rawlins-
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/

Del Rawlins wrote:

In Bart D. Hull wrote:
Ed,

Your sure you want OA? Why not MIG or TIG for welding?
I have access to all three and prefer to use MIG on steel (as its fast
and you don't go through the gas bottles like OA) and TIG
for every thing else. I use OA to remove bearings (ones
I don't want to re-use) and other heating purposes like softening up
loctited bolts.

A novice welder is far better off putting together his airplane using OA
rather than TIG or MIG. A google search will reveal that this has been
hashed out here many times in the past. Pay particular attention to
posts made by a guy called Highflier. I'm using TIG on my project, but
I am not a novice welder. No way would I use MIG for something I wanted
to fly in some day.

----------------------------------------------------
Del Rawlins-
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/


Del, they say one way to judge another person's intelligence
is by how well he agrees with you.
I think you are bloody brilliant.
(and by the way, thanks for teaching me some of what I think I know)

I know I'm not an expert at it, and never will be,
but I feel like I'm catching on enough to be dangerous.

I built my whole shop with a Hobart 135 running cored wire.
I like it!

With the shielding gas, it gets even better since you can clearly
see what's going down.

But all my aircraft welding is done with O/A.

I've tried the Mig on thin tube.
Invariably my welds started off cold and wound up hot enough to cut
holes.

If I worked slowly enough to avoid burning the tube, the welds weren't
sound.


Grandpa said there is a proper tool for every job,
and it's not always a hammer.


For O/A welding, I've started wearing reading glasses under my goggles
so
I can really see what's going on. Boy, did that make a difference.
I suspect a magnifier in the goggles would be better since I can't see
squat for distance with the glasses on...

I haven't tried a Cobalt Blue filter yet because of the cost, but I've
been reading about it. Supposedly this will reduce the glow of the hot
metal to the point where all you really see is the molten puddle.

I'd like to try one before shelling out that much money.
Has anyone tried one?

Opinions?


Richard

In Richard Lamb wrote:

Del, they say one way to judge another person's intelligence
is by how well he agrees with you.
I think you are bloody brilliant.
(and by the way, thanks for teaching me some of what I think I know)

Now I'm just frightened. You probably have me confused with somebody
else.

I haven't tried a Cobalt Blue filter yet because of the cost, but I've
been reading about it. Supposedly this will reduce the glow of the
hot metal to the point where all you really see is the molten puddle.

I'd like to try one before shelling out that much money.
Has anyone tried one?

I've never tried one, but word on the Bearhawk list seems to suggest
that the cobalt blue filters are -so- last century. The recommended
item is the TM2000 lens available at http://www.tinmantech.com/html/
tm2000.html but man, the price! That sucker costs about as much as the
fancy auto darkening lens for my TIG welding helmet, but if it works as
well as they say it does it is probably worth it. I don't do enough OA
work to justify the cost at this point.

I tried to buy a cobalt blue filter at one of the local welding supply
houses recently and the guy didn't think they were even manufactured
anymore.

----------------------------------------------------
Del Rawlins-
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/

Del Rawlins wrote:

In Richard Lamb wrote:

Del, they say one way to judge another person's intelligence
is by how well he agrees with you.
I think you are bloody brilliant.
(and by the way, thanks for teaching me some of what I think I know)

Now I'm just frightened. You probably have me confused with somebody
else.

I haven't tried a Cobalt Blue filter yet because of the cost, but I've
been reading about it. Supposedly this will reduce the glow of the
hot metal to the point where all you really see is the molten puddle.

I'd like to try one before shelling out that much money.
Has anyone tried one?

I've never tried one, but word on the Bearhawk list seems to suggest
that the cobalt blue filters are -so- last century. The recommended
item is the TM2000 lens available at http://www.tinmantech.com/html/
tm2000.html but man, the price! That sucker costs about as much as the
fancy auto darkening lens for my TIG welding helmet, but if it works as
well as they say it does it is probably worth it. I don't do enough OA
work to justify the cost at this point.

I tried to buy a cobalt blue filter at one of the local welding supply
houses recently and the guy didn't think they were even manufactured
anymore.

----------------------------------------------------
Del Rawlins-
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/


Yep. That's the one. I confused with the cobolt blue flter.
I've always been a sucker for a catchy name...

Thanks,

Richard

Looks like you have gotten some good advise from others in the group.
I'll back up some of that. MIG would be great for assembling a swing
set, but it is not a good choice for assembling a 4130 tube fuselage. It
is not just about control of the weld on thin tube but also about final
strength and durability of the welds. The skill you develop with the
oxy/acet torch will serve you well if you ever wish to convert to TIG.

A TIG unit would be a possible choice, requiring only a bit more skill
that the oxy/acet torch. Its primary drawback is the cost. There are
some very good deals out there these days on units like the Lincoln 175
or 185 Pro series of TIG welders....but you can buy 3 or 4 of the best
acet. outfits available for that kind of money. And in the end the welds
will not likely be superior to the oxy/acet welds.

As for tools: A good hacksaw and/or a tubing cutter; a bench grinder
with at least an 8" wheel; I really like a 4.5" angle grinder to help
with coping the fit up; a few clamps and a magnetic positioner is a good
investment. A 6" bench vise.

I would also suggest a good quality dressing tool for the bench grinder.
Dress the grinding wheel so it has a radiused face rather than the
normal square face. This will really help shape the fish mouth weld
joints. As for the grinder itself, someone suggested, I think it was
Orval, getting a good bench grinder. I used to agree with that idea, but
twenty five years ago I bought the least expensive Taiwan bench grinder
I could find. I have used it in two metal fabrication businesses and
years more in my garage shop. I have replaced the electrical push/pull
switch once with a toggle. The unit still runs strong. I have been lucky
but the cheapest bench grinders will probably out last 5 or 10 projects.

Ed wrote:

Eventually I plan to build a tube-n-fabric aircraft, but now isn't the time.
However, I would like to start developing the skills that I will need.

I've been looking at kids playsets for our yard. Most of them are made from
redwood, and are quite expensive. Several thousand dollars for the more
complex ones. Pressure treated lumber is much cheaper, but I don't want my
kids crawling on it.

Today I got an idea. I could build a frame out of steel tubing, get it
powdercoated, and then deck it with the composite synthetic decking that is
becoming popular for backyard decks. Such a structure would be strong,
durable, impervious to the elements, and would give me an excuse to learn to
weld.

What are the minimum set of tools I'd need to buy to complete the project?
I know I'd need an OA torch. What tools would I need for the cutting,
shaping, and prepping of the steel tubing? Any other suggestions on
construction and materials, especially steel type?

--
Bruce A. Frank, Editor "Ford 3.8/4.2L Engine and V-6 STOL
Homebuilt Aircraft Newsletter"
| Publishing interesting material|
| on all aspects of alternative |
| engines and homebuilt aircraft.|
*------------------------------**----*
\(-o-)/ AIRCRAFT PROJECTS CO.
\___/ Manufacturing parts & pieces
/ \ for homebuilt aircraft,
0 0 TIG welding

While trying to find the time to finish mine.