Singapore down selects three fighters...

On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:54:15 +0800, AL wrote:
This side of the pond, you can buy the AMRAAM, but you can't get it
delivered. Something to do about not introducing the latest weapon in
the region.

Israeli stuff is really good and they no qualms about releasing source
code.

Anyone buying sophisticated weapons should insist on getting the
source code, for two reasons:

1. to make it less likely there's a back door causing the weapon to
stop working

2. so the weapon can be adapted for use with other equipment

--
"It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than
people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia
(My real email address would be if you added 275
to it and reversed the last two letters).

On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:50:21 -0700, Harry Andreas wrote:

Interestingly models of aircraft operated by the Malaysia and Indonesia
did not make it to the shortlist. There are a million ways to interpret
this. One of them is to avoid any hesitation by the pilots when going
head to head?

That's certainly a consideration. Plus the recognition factor when US forces
are in the area. USN a/c not likely to fire on an F-15.

They'd be well advised not to fire on a Typhoon either, since it's
better than anything the USN is likely to have for some time (and I
think the F-35C falls in that category).

--
"It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than
people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia
(My real email address would be if you added 275
to it and reversed the last two letters).

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 00:09:46 +0100, ess (phil
hunt) wrote:

On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:50:21 -0700, Harry Andreas wrote:

Interestingly models of aircraft operated by the Malaysia and Indonesia
did not make it to the shortlist. There are a million ways to interpret
this. One of them is to avoid any hesitation by the pilots when going
head to head?

That's certainly a consideration. Plus the recognition factor when US forces
are in the area. USN a/c not likely to fire on an F-15.

They'd be well advised not to fire on a Typhoon either, since it's
better than anything the USN is likely to have for some time (and I
think the F-35C falls in that category).

Well it's good to dream but I'd say wait until the F-35C is flying
before making that judgement. That big wing, 56k lbs thrust (so says
RR) AESA, 360 degree IRST, stealth, -9X, . . .hell the list goes on
and on.

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 01:48:52 -0600, Scott Ferrin wrote:
On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 00:09:46 +0100, ess (phil
hunt) wrote:

They'd be well advised not to fire on a Typhoon either, since it's
better than anything the USN is likely to have for some time (and I
think the F-35C falls in that category).

Well it's good to dream but I'd say wait until the F-35C is flying
before making that judgement. That big wing, 56k lbs thrust (so says
RR)

Who's RR? The figure I've seen for thrust is 35 klbf (15900 kgf),
giving F-35 a

AESA,

What's this?

360 degree IRST,

My understanding is Eurofighter has an IRST too.

stealth, -9X,

The AIM-9X will have a shorter range than the Meteor (I'm assuming
that Singapore would buy it, it seems quite logical if they are
going for an air superiority fighter). So the Typhoons would be able
to get the first shot in (not only that, since they are faster than
the F-35, they have the ability to decide at what range the
engagement takes place). If the engagement does get to close range,
the Typhoon has (according to figures I've seen) a better thrust to
weight ratio and lower wing loading. F-35 has thrust vectoring, but
late models of the Typhoon might too. Typhoon is dynamically
unstable, which should increase its maneouvrability.

(BTW, is it right that the F-35's weapons bay is too small to fit in
some weapons like ASRAAM? My understanding is ASRAAM has a larger
diameter than AIM-9X, giving it potential for greater
range/acceleration).

--
"It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than
people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia
(My real email address would be if you added 275
to it and reversed the last two letters).

Rafale also has an IRST : it's called OSF : it's got a true IRST and
another tracking device (dunno how it's called though. It ressembles a
bit the one used on initial production F-14As). Besides, Eurofigther
isn't as versatile as the Rafale, considering mainly ATG capability.
Otherwise, the Eurofighter seems to be like THE air defence fighter.

Scott Ferrin wrote:

Well it's good to dream but I'd say wait until the F-35C is flying
before making that judgement. That big wing, 56k lbs thrust (so says
RR) AESA, 360 degree IRST, stealth, -9X, . . .hell the list goes on
and on.


--
Guy Wastiaux
aka FauCon PoiLu
visit me @ http://guy.4002.org/
mail me @ faucon.Wastiaux @ laposte.net

In article ,
wrote:

On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:50:21 -0700, Harry Andreas
wrote:

Interestingly models of aircraft operated by the Malaysia and Indonesia
did not make it to the shortlist. There are a million ways to interpret
this. One of them is to avoid any hesitation by the pilots when going
head to head?

That's certainly a consideration. Plus the recognition factor when US forces
are in the area. USN a/c not likely to fire on an F-15.

They'd be well advised not to fire on a Typhoon either, since it's
better than anything the USN is likely to have for some time (and I
think the F-35C falls in that category).

Is it better than an Amraam?

--
Harry Andreas
Engineering raconteur

In article ,
wrote:

AESA,

What's this?

Active Array radar. Higher performance and more versatile than
mechanicaly scanned planar arrays. More reliable too.


360 degree IRST,

My understanding is Eurofighter has an IRST too.

the 360 part is very important.


stealth, -9X,

The AIM-9X will have a shorter range than the Meteor (I'm assuming
that Singapore would buy it, it seems quite logical if they are
going for an air superiority fighter). So the Typhoons would be able
to get the first shot in (not only that, since they are faster than
the F-35, they have the ability to decide at what range the
engagement takes place). If the engagement does get to close range,
the Typhoon has (according to figures I've seen) a better thrust to
weight ratio and lower wing loading. F-35 has thrust vectoring, but
late models of the Typhoon might too. Typhoon is dynamically
unstable, which should increase its maneouvrability.

You seem fixated on close range combat.
Postulating a South Asia Typhoon v F-35 engagement, what makes
you think the more stealthy F-35 won't use NCTR then shoot the
Typhoon in the face BVR with an AIM-120?

--
Harry Andreas
Engineering raconteur

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 14:34:11 -0700, Harry Andreas wrote:
In article ,
wrote:

On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:50:21 -0700, Harry Andreas
wrote:

Interestingly models of aircraft operated by the Malaysia and Indonesia
did not make it to the shortlist. There are a million ways to interpret
this. One of them is to avoid any hesitation by the pilots when going
head to head?

That's certainly a consideration. Plus the recognition factor when US forces
are in the area. USN a/c not likely to fire on an F-15.

They'd be well advised not to fire on a Typhoon either, since it's
better than anything the USN is likely to have for some time (and I
think the F-35C falls in that category).

Is it better than an Amraam?

Would the F-35 even get close enough to fire an AMRAAM? Meteor is
longer range, and since the Typhoon is faster it could (depending on
the tactical situation) decide whether to break contact.

--
"It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than
people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia
(My real email address would be if you added 275
to it and reversed the last two letters).

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 19:17:10 +0200, guy wastiaux
wrote:

Rafale also has an IRST : it's called OSF : it's got a true IRST and
another tracking device (dunno how it's called though. It ressembles a
bit the one used on initial production F-14As). Besides, Eurofigther
isn't as versatile as the Rafale, considering mainly ATG capability.
Otherwise, the Eurofighter seems to be like THE air defence fighter.

Neither Rafale nor Eurofighter is even in the same league with the
F-22 and F-35. Eurofighter and Rafae are capable aircraft, but not
capable of living in the same sky with the -22 or -35.

Al Minyard

Like in Korea last year,it will may depend on "diplomatic questions",then
F.15 is on the way.
But like in Korea last year also,Rafale will certainly win technical
evaluations.So wait and see.



"David Bromage" a écrit dans le
message de news: ...
AL wrote:
It is all about putting all your eggs in one basket. Everybody knows
about the Congress idiosyncrasies. Not to mention there may be plans
to
do some kind of upgrade from type 52 F16 to near type 60.

IMHO, it is going to be a tossup between Rafale and the Typhoon. F15
is
too complicated and the road map is too short to operate.

I think the F-15 has a very good chance. Bear in mind their next door
neighbours are getting Su-30s.

Cheers
David