Doug Fir vs: Sitka Spruce

Morgans wrote:

"Tim Ward" wrote in message
...

"Rich S." wrote in message
...

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"ChuckSlusarczyk" wrote in

message

...

In article , B2431

says...


I'd have thought you'd use spruce, it's even more poplar... :-)

Ed Wischmeyer

Ed, you know a bunch of people are going to birch about your

comment.

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

Just don't pine over using birch instead of spruce.But remember

there's

always

the larch :-)

See ya

Chuck S


You are all acting like stoopid sons of beeches.
--
Jim in NC

Nobody ashed yew!!!

Rich S.

You guys are gonna make me sycamore puns.

Tim Ward



Who gives a Buck-eye?

This is becoming a Burl under my saddle.
Jerry

"Tim Ward" wrote in message
...

"Rich S." wrote in message
...
"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"ChuckSlusarczyk" wrote in
message
...
In article , B2431
says...


I'd have thought you'd use spruce, it's even more poplar... :-)

Ed Wischmeyer

Ed, you know a bunch of people are going to birch about your
comment.

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

Just don't pine over using birch instead of spruce.But remember
there's
always
the larch :-)

See ya

Chuck S

You are all acting like stoopid sons of beeches.
--
Jim in NC

Nobody ashed yew!!!

Rich S.

You guys are gonna make me sycamore puns.

Tim Ward


Who gives a Buck-eye?
--
Jim in NC

I think he's barking up the wrong tree

Doug



It seems Del is trying to branch out. I'll leaf it at that.

Dan, U. S. U. S. Air Force, retired

From: "Doug"
Date: 11/8/2003 8:08 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id: gers.com



I think he's barking up the wrong tree

Doug



It seems Del is trying to branch out. I'll leaf it at that.

Dan, U. S. U. S. Air Force, retired

When I was in elementary school I had to play a dog in a school play. I ran
across the stage yelling "oak, oak, oak." You see it was the only bark I knew.

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

"B2431" wrote ...
When I was in elementary school I had to play a dog in a school play. I
ran
across the stage yelling "oak, oak, oak." You see it was the only bark I
knew.

Wouldn't it have been better to bark as your dogwood?

Rich

(Lou Parker) wrote in message . com...
Can anyone tell me the truth? When I read articles about the
difference between the two woods, the information says that fir is 23%
stronger than spruce. When I talk to people they say only 10%. Anyone
got a handle on this?
Lou

You need to know that Douglas Fir is not fir. That may be the source
of the confusion here. Douglas Fir is also known as Oregon Pine and
it is not a pine either. Douglas Fir is its own genus, I forget the
Latin name but understand that it translates to 'pseudo-hemlock' and
no, it's not a hemlock either.

Softwood lumber is often classified in 'species groups' with minimum
standards for tensile strength for each group. The cheapest is usually
S-P-F which stands for spruce, pine or fir. Another category is
'Hem-Fir' which may be hemlock or (true) fir. Doug Fir is usually
either grouped by itself, or with Larch. Southern Yellow Pine also
is usually grouped by itself.

Fir, pine, spruce, and hemlock are genuses. THere are several species
within each genus and many will also hybridize in the wild. I think
there is only one species of Douglas Fir.

But there are also significant differences within Douglas Fir depending
on where it is grown and whether it is old growth or second growth.

If the wood you are buying or reading about is just called fir, it
probably is NOT Douglas Fir.

Hope this helps.

--

FF

Fred the Red Shirt wrote:
[ generally good description regarding how Doug fir is not a true fir and
other things ]

If the wood you are buying or reading about is just called fir, it
probably is NOT Douglas Fir.

I think this depends upon where you are buying it. Here in Oregon 80% or so
(warning: unsubstantiated number) of the evergreens are Doug fir. I think
its pretty safe that the "fir" at my local lumber yard is indeed Doug fir.

Now, it is also second growth Doug fir and is hardly suitable for a dog
house much less an airplane.

They just don't make trees like they used to.

--
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
Hood River, OR

Frank Stutzman wrote:
Fred the Red Shirt wrote:
[ generally good description regarding how Doug fir is not a true fir and
other things ]


If the wood you are buying or reading about is just called fir, it
probably is NOT Douglas Fir.


I think this depends upon where you are buying it. Here in Oregon 80% or so
(warning: unsubstantiated number) of the evergreens are Doug fir. I think
its pretty safe that the "fir" at my local lumber yard is indeed Doug fir.

Now, it is also second growth Doug fir and is hardly suitable for a dog
house much less an airplane.

They just don't make trees like they used to.


FYI only a small fraction of the wood in any store in oregon comes from
here. And Doug fir only makes up a small part of our forest, Hemlock,
Pine and various hardwoods make up the bigger part. MOst of whats sold
aaround the country as "fir" is actually Hemlock and a lot of it
comes from Canada...

There are small millworks in Oregon that will make sure you get
what you ewwant for a fairly small premium. Even Sitka Spruce
is available if you do some looking.

Dave
Oregon Native and Forest service brat.

D.W. Taylor wrote:

FYI only a small fraction of the wood in any store in oregon comes from
here.

I could be biased by my location. I don't buy wood in any metro area as I
don't live there. I am currently having a house built and everything that
has been delivered has had a stamp or tag on it that said either SDS (a mill
in Bingen WA, which is barely accross the Columbia) or Warm Springs (which I
assume means it comes from the Warm Springs Indians).

Now, on the other hand, I had a pole barn built last spring. It was a kit
and the outfit that put it togather was from Canby (greater Portland area).
Every stick of that building came from Canada. I was told it was "Canadian
Pine." It was good looking wood, too. Much tighter grain, less knots than
what I can get locally.

Oregon Native and Forest service brat.

Also an Oregon Native. I'm also the first of my family NOT to be making a
living in the timber industry. Put myself through college setting chokers
on some mighty big Douglas fir.

--
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
Hood River, OR

"D.W. Taylor" wrote in message ...
Frank Stutzman wrote:
Fred the Red Shirt wrote:
[ generally good description regarding how Doug fir is not a true fir and
other things ]


If the wood you are buying or reading about is just called fir, it
probably is NOT Douglas Fir.


I think this depends upon where you are buying it. Here in Oregon 80% or so
(warning: unsubstantiated number) of the evergreens are Doug fir. I think
its pretty safe that the "fir" at my local lumber yard is indeed Doug fir.

I was
remiss in not explaining more. There is an industry standards
organisation, the American Softwood Lumber Association that sets
standards for softwood lumber. They establish standards for species
groups, dimensions for standard lumber sizes etc.

There is a standard for Douglas Fir and a different standard for
Hem-Fir. A higher minimum strength is required for Doug Fir than
for Hem-Fir. If the lumber is just labeled 'Fir' and it really is
Doug fir then it is mislabeled as an inferior product. If it isn't
Doug Fir it almost certainly isn't as strong as Doug Fir.

Now, there is no requirement that anyone use the standards set by
the ASLA. Home Depot certainly does not. A friend in S.Cal had
a deck made with Doug Fir timbers. THere were paper tags with
bar codes on the lumber that said 'GRN FIR' (Green Fir) but the
inked stamp from the actual lumber company that milled the
lumber was the trademark triangle with 'DF' in it. IOW,
Home Depot was relabeling the lumber as an inferior product,
no doubt through ignorance or indifference.

I think Hem-Fir, S-P-F and few other designations are trademarked
by the ASLA, but a commonly used word or phrase cannot be a trademark
so 'Douglas Fir', or just 'Fir' cannot eb tardemarked and that's
why there are special symbols. I think there is a trade group
just for Douglas Fir, a Google search should turn them up.

So you may be right but you certainly shouldn't count on the
lumber having the properties of Douglas Fir unless it is clearly
waranteed as such.

....


FYI only a small fraction of the wood in any store in oregon comes from
here. And Doug fir only makes up a small part of our forest, Hemlock,
Pine and various hardwoods make up the bigger part. MOst of whats sold
aaround the country as "fir" is actually Hemlock and a lot of it
comes from Canada...

It ought to be labeled Hem-Fir. But maybe it isn't because the
supplier does not want to warantee that it meets the ASLA standard
for Hem-Fir. I've seen a lot of 'oak' furniture (without the
quotemarks around the oak) that is made from rubber wood. A fair
bit of 'maple' furniture is being made from beech these days and
it has often been a common practice to substitute ash for oak w
in places where the former is cheaper.


There are small millworks in Oregon that will make sure you get
what you ewwant for a fairly small premium. Even Sitka Spruce
is available if you do some looking.


Yep. The best (and cheapest) wood is bought direct from the
sawyer.

--

FF