Confusion about when it's my navigation, and when it's ATC

Buck Murdock writes:

Until you have done more than one of the above, you ARE NOT QUALIFIED to
make comparisons amongst them.

Qualifications on USENET are never certain.

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Rick Branch writes:

A friend of mine is a pilot for an international cargo carrier, and he
does play with MSFS. He just loves to fly a 747 off of a grass strip
that is about half a mile from his (real) house. The grass strip is in
the MSFS database, so he uses it. (I guess it beats pretending to drive
to the airport.)

I didn't think that 747s could be used with grass strips. I know some
other airliners can be used on unpaved strips, although it may require
special option packages.

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TxSrv writes:

Brilliant. How do we get there in the first place?

If it's above the ceiling of the aircraft, you don't.

Barring extraordinary
ridge lift in winter-cold air, and maybe that would be
insufficient, how do we get to FL 300 like I've done in MSFS
in a 172?

You don't.

The point is that, since you cannot test the real aircraft at that
altitude, you don't really know how it would behave. And so you don't
necessarily know if the simulation is accurate or not. Simulation
allows you to magically place the aircraft at that altitude. In real
life, you'd have to climb to that altitude. The only exception might
be a drop from a larger aircraft, which would indeed allow you to test
it at high altitudes. It's hard to see any use for that, however,
beyond satisfaction of curiosity.

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Newps writes:

BZZT, try again.

Which flight path is followed in a forward slip?

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Newps writes:

Steeeeeerike two.

Why? The intended flight path is aligned with the centerline of the
runway, and in fact that is the flight path followed; there is no
deviation.

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Sam Spade writes:

The King Air, on autopilot, will not maintain the set vertical speed if
the IAS drops below 120 knots or so. It will nose-dive and crash. Not
so with a real King Air.

Does the King Air allow you to set a vertical speed? What happens on
the real aircraft?

Cross winds on autopilot are not handled correctly on an RNAV approach.

Which autopilot? What does it do incorrectly?

Strong winds aloft dramatically affect IAS in a holding pattern, which
is wrong beyond belief.

I'll have to look.

That is my short list.

I don't recall ever flying the King Air, but I'll try to remember to
look at the other things the next time the opportunity arises.

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Sam Spade wrote:
A Guy Called Tyketto wrote:


This would be a company policy, no? Because it could still be
done in any other aircraft outside your company.

You must be another non-pilot?

Right now, no. I'm working on that. doing all the studying I
can and taking notes from you who already are pilots before taking the
plunge myself. I want to be ready before I take that step.

91.129

A large or turbine-powered airplane approaching to land on a runway
served by an instrument landing system (ILS), if the airplane is ILS
equipped, shall fly that airplane at an altitude at or above the glide
slope between the outer marker (or point of interception of glide slope,
if compliance with the applicable distance from clouds criteria requires
interception closer in) and the middle marker; and
(3) An airplane approaching to land on a runway served by a visual
approach slope indicator shall maintain an altitude at or above the
glide slope until a lower altitude is necessary for a safe landing.


I understand now. I was more familiar with the .65 than the
FARs. Thank you for the enlightenment.

BL.
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Mxsmanic wrote:
Sam Spade writes:

That just isn't so. Jet aircraft are required to remain on, or above,
the ILS G/S whether on an ILS approach or on a visual approach.

But doesn't one normally fly below the glide path in order to
intercept it?

Depends. There are times when you pick up the glideslope at or
a bit above the appropriate altitude before it is totally intercepted.
Case in point: ILS 25L and 24R at LAX, ILS 25L at Vegas.

At the company I worked for, failure to tune and identify the ILS for a visual
approach to an ILS runway was a check-ride bust.

So it's a company policy, but not a FAR. However, such a policy does
not surprise me. Why deprive oneself of the information from the ILS
just because it is a visual approach?

You really don't get it.

No-one is depriving anyone from the readouts an ILS approach
has. Because you're on a visual approach however, it is the pilot's
responsibility for separation, not ATC's. ATC can tell you to join the
runway localizer and track it inbound, but still to expect a visual
approach.

Just because an airport has a runway with an instrument
approach does not always mean you will use that runway. Like I said
before.. I'd hate to see how you'd get into some place like LAS when
the 19s and 7s are in use, or PSP when the 13s are in use.

Let me ask this.. Granted, you will have more issues to deal
with when/if it happens, but what would you do if you were on approach
to an airport, and you lost your entire panel? According to your very
post above, you'd be deprived of your precious ILS.. I hope you know
how to land a plane without anything.

BL.
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A Guy Called Tyketto writes:

Depends. There are times when you pick up the glideslope at or
a bit above the appropriate altitude before it is totally intercepted.
Case in point: ILS 25L and 24R at LAX, ILS 25L at Vegas.

It must be awkward, since the glide slope constantly descends, and
you'd have to chase it downward.

I also seem to recall reading that some autopilot systems will only
capture correctly from beneath. They expect the glide path to descend
towards them. I haven't tested this in simulation, and of course
there's no guarantee that the simulation would be accurate on such a
small detail, but I'll have to try it sometime.

ATC can tell you to join the
runway localizer and track it inbound, but still to expect a visual
approach.

I haven't heard that. I'll have to listen for it.

Just because an airport has a runway with an instrument
approach does not always mean you will use that runway. Like I said
before.. I'd hate to see how you'd get into some place like LAS when
the 19s and 7s are in use, or PSP when the 13s are in use.

It hasn't happened to me thus far.

Let me ask this.. Granted, you will have more issues to deal
with when/if it happens, but what would you do if you were on approach
to an airport, and you lost your entire panel? According to your very
post above, you'd be deprived of your precious ILS.. I hope you know
how to land a plane without anything.

In VMC, I'd continue visually. In IMC, I'd have to find a place where
I could land visually. It depends on exactly which instruments I've
lost. If I have nothing at all and I'm in IMC, the outlook is grim.
In VMC, it would be challenging but doable.

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Nomen Nescio writes:

Since you've never flown a real aircraft AT ALL, you have no way of
knowing whether the simulation is accurate or not.

The real aircraft cannot climb to that altitude, so _nobody_ knows
whether the simulation is accurate or not.

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