cirrus aircraft

On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 04:25:12 GMT, Ken Reed wrote:

Even the SR22 isn't any faster than other light
aircraft that possess more stable flying characteristics.


more stable? How and where did you get the idea that the SR22is not?

Back two or three days ago, in this thread. The observation came from one
or two Cirrus drivers.

Wasn't me. Mine's quite stable.


Stable is a relative term. It depends on what you have been flying.
Typically, Fast and stable used to describe the same airplane is an
oxymoron. Even with that big wing and light wing loading the Bo is
near neutral in stability. (Mine has a slightly lighter loading than a
Cherokee, but that hummer is slippery)

Put a 172 or Cherokee pilot into a Cirrus or Bonanza and see how well
they do at holding altitude. Take all three and trim them for level
flight. Push the yoke down and then let go. How long does it take to
stabilize? The Cherokee and 172 will bob the nose up and down a few
times and in short order will be flying as if nothing happened. The
Bo will do a slow oscillation and take its time about coming back "if
it does". We have a husband and wife flying an SR-22 who say the
same about theirs. They purchased a new one just over a year ago, put
700 hours on that thing and have already traded it in for a new one.
I'd say they are "experienced" pilots.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
KR
Roger

On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 12:55:40 -0000, Dylan Smith
wrote:

On 2005-10-01, Ron Garret wrote:
I think it was me, and I never said it wasn't stable, just that it's
hard to adjust the pitch trim for level flight at high speed because
it's electric. That's very different from "unstable".

Seems to be true with all electric trimmers. I usually find myself

You should fly one of the early Debonairs. A quarter inch of trim
wheel movement will either push you down into the seat or lift you
right out of it. the fixed that after about 60 or so planes were
built, but that mechanical trim is very coarse.

giving up and using the manual trim wheel (if available). It's not
particlarly bothersome in most electric-trim-only planes though.

On our old Cherokee it was far easier to adjust and hold trim with the
button than the wheel.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 13:00:22 -0000, Dylan Smith
wrote:

On 2005-09-30, Ron Garret wrote:
Not hands off, according to some Cirrus drivers.

It will fly level hands-off in roll (which is the axis that really
matters if you have to choose) but not in pitch at high speed -- at
least I have the very devil of a time trimming out the pitch. But YMMV.

Then again, a Piper Arrow generally won't do so either (all the Arrows I
find have had a fairly pronounced and slow phugoid oscillation. In fact,
I find the Beech Bonanza a lot less work to fly IFR than an Arrow
because the Bonana flies better hands-off).

The bo has much lighter controls too.
OTOH you see very few Bos flying IFR without autopilots. The Arrow is
just a big Cherokee with out the landing gear drag. They are still
very docile airplanes.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 17:11:20 GMT, john smith wrote:

Then again, a Piper Arrow generally won't do so either (all the Arrows I
find have had a fairly pronounced and slow phugoid oscillation. In fact,
I find the Beech Bonanza a lot less work to fly IFR than an Arrow
because the Bonana flies better hands-off).

Then again, the Bonanza has a side-side tail wiggle that other airplanes
do not. And nothing short of a yaw damper will stop it.

Yah, but if the pilot doesn't sit in the back seat he'll never no it's
there. I've never noticed it on calm days either.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On 2005-10-01, Ron Garret wrote:

I usually find myself giving up and using the manual trim wheel (if
available). It's not particlarly bothersome in most
electric-trim-only planes though.

Electric trim on the 182RG works, if anything, a little slowly. Quite
precise; never need the manual wheel.

On 2005-10-01, john smith wrote:
Then again, a Piper Arrow generally won't do so either (all the Arrows I
find have had a fairly pronounced and slow phugoid oscillation. In fact,
I find the Beech Bonanza a lot less work to fly IFR than an Arrow
because the Bonana flies better hands-off).

Then again, the Bonanza has a side-side tail wiggle that other airplanes
do not. And nothing short of a yaw damper will stop it.

I've not found the Bonanza waggle to be something that makes it not fly
hands-off: it's short period, doesn't result in a net course change and
not particularly severe (well, unless you're in the back seat).

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 08:24:41 -0000, Dylan Smith
wrote:

On 2005-10-01, john smith wrote:
Then again, a Piper Arrow generally won't do so either (all the Arrows I
find have had a fairly pronounced and slow phugoid oscillation. In fact,
I find the Beech Bonanza a lot less work to fly IFR than an Arrow
because the Bonana flies better hands-off).

Then again, the Bonanza has a side-side tail wiggle that other airplanes
do not. And nothing short of a yaw damper will stop it.

I've not found the Bonanza waggle to be something that makes it not fly
hands-off: it's short period, doesn't result in a net course change and
not particularly severe (well, unless you're in the back seat).

It does tend to raise the "barf factor" a tad, but it does that in the
straight tails too.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com