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  #11  
Old July 30th 05, 05:07 PM
Casey Wilson
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"Jose" wrote in message
...
I can't stand wading through an undecoded briefing where I have to pick
through "Wind" and "Temperature" and all of that unnecessary verbal
nonsense in order to get the information.

Wind and Temp data is nonsense?


I think what he means is that the word "wind" and "temperature" is
nonsense if you already know which numbers they are. (He probably also
mistyped "undecoded" for "decoded into prose")

For example, once you really know the format,
FM0800 VRB03KT 3SM BR OVC040
is easier to read than
"from 8:00 Greenwich Mean Time until 14:00 Greenwich Mean time (2:00 pm in
England), the winds will be variable at three knots, visibility will be
three statute miles in mist and the ceiling will be overcast at four
thousand feet above ground level."

This is especially true when you stack a bunch of them up to spot a trend,
or are getting the METAR from a PDA or internet cell phone.

Bravo, Jose.... You made the point exactly
Let's keep the "shorthand" as is.


  #12  
Old July 30th 05, 05:50 PM
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CriticalMass wrote:
Jonathan Goodish wrote:

What is the alternative? Undecoded METARs/TAFs?


Obviously, plain-language. Where's the compelling reason to make trying
to read them a goat-rope? All the encoded BS is a relic of a prior era,
driven by the technology of that era, and now, well overtaken by events
and several generations of newer technology that make it embarrassingly
obsolete.


Not entirely. I get weather data on my cell phone which doesn't have a
ton of screen space and can get an entire TAF cycle in about two
screens which is quite convenient. The thing I have the most trouble
with is converting from zulu to local time. Flying a plane I can handle
but simple arithmetic seems to elude me.

-cwk.

  #13  
Old July 30th 05, 07:23 PM
Paul Tomblin
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In a previous article, said:
screens which is quite convenient. The thing I have the most trouble
with is converting from zulu to local time. Flying a plane I can handle
but simple arithmetic seems to elude me.


That's why I have a watch with two time zones, so I can forget about local
time and do everything in zulu when I'm flying.


--
Paul Tomblin
http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
I got accused of being humorless last night. I'm considering quoting
Lieutenant Commander Data: "Perhaps the joke was not funny."
-- Alan Rosenthal
  #14  
Old July 30th 05, 10:31 PM
Peter R.
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Jose wrote:

For example, once you really know the format,
FM0800 VRB03KT 3SM BR OVC040
is easier to read than
"from 8:00 Greenwich Mean Time until 14:00 Greenwich Mean time (2:00 pm
in England), the winds will be variable at three knots, visibility will
be three statute miles in mist and the ceiling will be overcast at four
thousand feet above ground level."


When retrieving a briefing via DUATS, I always choose the "Plain Language"
option. However, I do this solely to read the NOTAMS and FA Synopsis
sections of the brief.

The TAFS and METARS I read and comprehend much faster in their native
format.

--
Peter


















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  #15  
Old July 31st 05, 12:23 AM
Jonathan Goodish
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In article ,
CriticalMass wrote:

Jonathan Goodish wrote:


What is the alternative? Undecoded METARs/TAFs?


Obviously, plain-language. Where's the compelling reason to make trying
to read them a goat-rope? All the encoded BS is a relic of a prior era,
driven by the technology of that era, and now, well overtaken by events
and several generations of newer technology that make it embarrassingly
obsolete.



The problem with plain language (undecoded) is that I want the data, not
excess verbiage. I can look at a METAR and TAF and get ONLY the data,
which is a heck of a lot quicker than reading through some verbose plain
language translation.

CSC DUATs will provide plain language translations if you want, and it
seems to do a good job. Lots of wasted space for a little bit of
information, in my opinion.



JKG
  #16  
Old July 31st 05, 12:27 AM
Jonathan Goodish
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In article ,
"Matt Barrow" wrote:
I can't stand wading through an undecoded briefing where I have to pick
through "Wind" and "Temperature" and all of that unnecessary verbal
nonsense in order to get the information.


Wind and Temp data is nonsense?


The data is not, the excess verbiage of "Wind" and "Temperature" is.



Sounds rather like the "If you can't run a computer from the command line,
you shouldn't be on it!" crowd. That was a popular refrain from the Unix
gang. I wonder how many of those are on the outs right now, with the IT
industry going south? "Requirements? We don't do requirements; you'll get it
the way we want to do it".


Not really. The bottom line is that decoded METARs/TAFs provide a lot
of information in a small package, and it can be read very quickly.
Plain language briefings are cumbersome by comparison. I know of at
least one briefing provider that has an option for undecoded, and that
is CSC DUATs.

The reality is that encoded weather may be old, but there's nothing
wrong with it, and there are quite a few advantages to it. You do have
to learn how to read it, though.



JKG
  #17  
Old July 31st 05, 12:39 AM
Matt Barrow
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Casey Wilson" N2310D @ gmail.com wrote in message
news:4BNGe.2746$Tk6.2417@trnddc02...

"Jose" wrote in message
...
I can't stand wading through an undecoded briefing where I have to

pick
through "Wind" and "Temperature" and all of that unnecessary verbal
nonsense in order to get the information.
Wind and Temp data is nonsense?


I think what he means is that the word "wind" and "temperature" is
nonsense if you already know which numbers they are. (He probably also
mistyped "undecoded" for "decoded into prose")

For example, once you really know the format,
FM0800 VRB03KT 3SM BR OVC040
is easier to read than


"from 8:00 Greenwich Mean Time until 14:00 Greenwich Mean time (2:00 pm

in
England), the winds will be variable at three knots, visibility will be
three statute miles in mist and the ceiling will be overcast at four
thousand feet above ground level."


That's not the format plain English would use.


This is especially true when you stack a bunch of them up to spot a

trend,
or are getting the METAR from a PDA or internet cell phone.

Bravo, Jose.... You made the point exactly
Let's keep the "shorthand" as is.


Are you willing to go back to 1200BPS modems and tet only web pages?

Why not?




  #18  
Old July 31st 05, 12:40 AM
Matt Barrow
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Posts: n/a
Default


wrote in message
oups.com...

CriticalMass wrote:
Jonathan Goodish wrote:

What is the alternative? Undecoded METARs/TAFs?


Obviously, plain-language. Where's the compelling reason to make trying
to read them a goat-rope? All the encoded BS is a relic of a prior era,
driven by the technology of that era, and now, well overtaken by events
and several generations of newer technology that make it embarrassingly
obsolete.


Not entirely. I get weather data on my cell phone which doesn't have a
ton of screen space and can get an entire TAF cycle in about two
screens which is quite convenient. The thing I have the most trouble
with is converting from zulu to local time. Flying a plane I can handle
but simple arithmetic seems to elude me.

Yeah, let's stay in the middle ages so that you can use your cell phone.

Cripes!!


  #19  
Old July 31st 05, 12:44 AM
Matt Barrow
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Jonathan Goodish" wrote in message
...


The problem with plain language (undecoded) is that I want the data, not
excess verbiage. I can look at a METAR and TAF and get ONLY the data,
which is a heck of a lot quicker than reading through some verbose plain
language translation.

CSC DUATs will provide plain language translations if you want, and it
seems to do a good job. Lots of wasted space for a little bit of
information, in my opinion.


Y DO U CAR WH FMT TS IN? :~)


  #20  
Old July 31st 05, 12:46 AM
Matt Barrow
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Jonathan Goodish" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Matt Barrow" wrote:
I can't stand wading through an undecoded briefing where I have to

pick
through "Wind" and "Temperature" and all of that unnecessary verbal
nonsense in order to get the information.


Wind and Temp data is nonsense?


The data is not, the excess verbiage of "Wind" and "Temperature" is.



Sounds rather like the "If you can't run a computer from the command

line,
you shouldn't be on it!" crowd. That was a popular refrain from the Unix
gang. I wonder how many of those are on the outs right now, with the IT
industry going south? "Requirements? We don't do requirements; you'll

get it
the way we want to do it".


Not really. The bottom line is that decoded METARs/TAFs provide a lot
of information in a small package, and it can be read very quickly.
Plain language briefings are cumbersome by comparison. I know of at
least one briefing provider that has an option for undecoded, and that
is CSC DUATs.

The reality is that encoded weather may be old, but there's nothing
wrong with it, and there are quite a few advantages to it. You do have
to learn how to read it, though.


Amazing that people want to save one or two lines that provide clarity, but
then spend eons writing out long, rambling posts in here! :~)



 




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