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#31
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#32
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BUFDRVR wrote:
He's much more laid back then other Radar vets I've met. The term "BN" is short for Bombardier Navigator, which depending on airframe could imply the job description of operating the bombing radar, but not always. Seems the guys I've met try to seperate themselves from non-Radar bombing types. Current RN's don't really seem to care either way, at least most don't. As long as they're not called GPS Bombardiers? -HJC |
#33
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"BUFDRVR" wrote in message When I recounted to him that I had been told he would take offense at "BN" he looked some what quizzical, shrugged and said "No." "That's what I was, a Radar Navigator Bombardier." He's much more laid back then other Radar vets I've met. The term "BN" is short for Bombardier Navigator, which depending on airframe could imply the job description of operating the bombing radar, but not always. Seems the guys I've met try to seperate themselves from non-Radar bombing types. Current RN's don't really seem to care either way, at least most don't. BUFDRVR Never heard of a Bombardier-Navigator. There were in WWII - Pilots, Navigators and Bombardiers. Once the Jets came in they were sent to Aerial Observer School at Mather as I remember and were issued anew set of Wings and MOS (1037), never saw a pair of Navigator or Bombardier Wings after early 1950's? The B-47 Pilot AC's were sent to Ellington for Navigation School, then Mather for Radar and Bombardier Schools, thus authorizing them to be rated in 4 Specialties and wear 4 different sets of Wings. They were known as 4 -Headed Monsters! |
#34
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We all do what we are told (please don't confuse me with Kramer this
AM.) Well, then why the credibility issue with the BUFF crews? Its not like it was there choice to fly "coconut knocking" sorties vise meaningful sorties up north. I remember a while back when you were quoting Clodfelter to me as a demonstration of the total failure of Linebacker II. Ahh, you're miss quoting me, I never said LB II was a "total failure". What I did say was that the NVN didn't agree to any additional stipulations in Jan 1973 that they hadn't already agreed to in Oct 1972. All it did was end the war, bring the recalcitrant NVN/VC back to the bargaining table and get the release of the POWs in six weeks. Which was going to happen in Nov-Dec 1972 but for the South Vietnamese governments "refusal" to agree with the Paris Peace Accord. Kissenger played hardball with Thieu in Jan 73 telling him to go along with Paris or risk being left completely alone (which, of course, he was anyway). Had Henry played hardball in Nov 72, there would have been no reason for LB II. LB II showed the NVN that congress wasn't prepared (yet) to cut off funding for the war, they agreed to return to sign the already agreed upon truce, all that was left was for SVN to give the U.S. a thumbs up, which they begrudingly did. The Freedom Porch operations and Linebacker I did more to the end the war as far as NVN material destruction then LB II did. BUFDRVR "Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips everyone on Bear Creek" |
#35
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Never heard of a Bombardier-Navigator.
I believe its unique to the United States Navy.... The B-47 Pilot AC's were sent to Ellington for Navigation School, then Mather for Radar and Bombardier Schools, thus authorizing them to be rated in 4 Specialties and wear 4 different sets of Wings. They were known as 4 -Headed Monsters! Interesting. Good thing they don't do that now, I've flown nearly an entire sortie as the Navigator and I'm here to tell you I'm the worst navigator since Marco Polo. BUFDRVR "Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips everyone on Bear Creek" |
#36
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"Bob's Your Uncle" wrote in message ... Never heard of a Bombardier-Navigator. There were in WWII - Pilots, Navigators and Bombardiers. Once the Jets came in they were sent to Aerial Observer School at Mather as I remember and were issued anew set of Wings and MOS (1037), never saw a pair of Navigator or Bombardier Wings after early 1950's? The B-47 Pilot AC's were sent to Ellington for Navigation School, then Mather for Radar and Bombardier Schools, thus authorizing them to be rated in 4 Specialties and wear 4 different sets of Wings. They were known as 4 -Headed Monsters! Five examples of Bombardier-Navigators http://www.b26.com/html/people/albert_hill.htm http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer/Dontlookdown.htm http://www.nebna.org/editorials.htm http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb....DupreWWII.html http://home.att.net/~jbaugher4/a26_4.html Triple Headed Monsters http://www.b-47.com/Navigator.htm Regards, Tex |
#37
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Subject: Cleaning up old BUFF threads was: Friendly Fire Notebook
From: (BUFDRVR) Date: 4/15/04 11:39 AM Pacific Daylight Time Message-id: Never heard of a Bombardier-Navigator. I believe its unique to the United States Navy.... The B-47 Pilot AC's were sent to Ellington for Navigation School, then Mather for Radar and Bombardier Schools, thus authorizing them to be rated in 4 Specialties and wear 4 different sets of Wings. They were known as 4 -Headed Monsters! Interesting. Good thing they don't do that now, I've flown nearly an entire sortie as the Navigator and I'm here to tell you I'm the worst navigator since Marco Polo. BUFDRVR US Army Air Corp Bombardier Navigator(DR) MOS 1035. It was my MOS all during WW II. Arthur Kramer 344th BG 494th BS England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany Visit my WW II B-26 website at: http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer |
#38
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"Tex Houston" wrote in message "Bob's Your Uncle" wrote in message The B-47 Pilot AC's were sent to Ellington for Navigation School, then Mather for Radar and Bombardier Schools, thus authorizing them to be rated in 4 Specialties and wear 4 different sets of Wings. They were known as 4 -Headed Monsters! http://www.b-47.com/Navigator.htm Regards, Tex In In this reference, as is typical, the AOB who wrote the story got it wrong. the Pilots were known as 4, count 'em 4 -headed Monsters, 1.Pilot, 2. Navigator, 3. Bombardier, 4. Radar Observer. They were RATED in all 4 Specialties and entitled to wear all 4 sets of Wings. This quote:"General LeMay originally had decided to fill all three crew seats with rated pilots called "Triple Headed Monsters". This was a costly ill-conceived idea, which was abandoned as it soon became evident that pilots made poor radar navigators. " is completely false. Never was this the plan, the reason for the 4-headed Monster AC and CP was the workload was too great for the AOB in the nose and skilled and knowledgeable Pilots could assist the overburdened AOB. Over 3,000 Pilots were sent through the B-47 program becoming 4-headed Monsters! |
#39
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"Bob's Your Uncle" wrote in message ... In In this reference, as is typical, the AOB who wrote the story got it wrong. the Pilots were known as 4, count 'em 4 -headed Monsters, 1.Pilot, 2. Navigator, 3. Bombardier, 4. Radar Observer. They were RATED in all 4 Specialties and entitled to wear all 4 sets of Wings. This quote:"General LeMay originally had decided to fill all three crew seats with rated pilots called "Triple Headed Monsters". This was a costly ill-conceived idea, which was abandoned as it soon became evident that pilots made poor radar navigators. " is completely false. Never was this the plan, the reason for the 4-headed Monster AC and CP was the workload was too great for the AOB in the nose and skilled and knowledgeable Pilots could assist the overburdened AOB. Over 3,000 Pilots were sent through the B-47 program becoming 4-headed Monsters! I know of two references to multi-headed monsters in B-47 units, one, the original program (Mather AFB?) in which the bombardier/navigator/RADAR observer graduates were called that and two, the follow-on where some of these people went to flight school and became pilot/bombardier/navigators also called triple headed monsters. In no case do I ever remember four-headed term being used. Realize this though...back then I was mostly an air defense type and was not that familiar with B-47 units. Too bad this subject had not come up before as I had breakfast in Phoenix last month with a B-47 pilot. Google had nothing on your program nor do I have a decent B-47 history. Regards, Tex Houston |
#40
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Henry J Cobb wrote:
BUFDRVR wrote: He's much more laid back then other Radar vets I've met. The term "BN" is short for Bombardier Navigator, which depending on airframe could imply the job description of operating the bombing radar, but not always. Seems the guys I've met try to seperate themselves from non-Radar bombing types. Current RN's don't really seem to care either way, at least most don't. As long as they're not called GPS Bombardiers? Hey - now that's an idea: the QB-52 UCAV. Beats hell out of predators; plenty of loiter time and *bunches* more munitions... Ducking... |
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