A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Soaring
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Captain Fraidy-Cat Has a Question



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old July 11th 06, 03:32 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Blue Crew
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Captain Fraidy-Cat Has a Question

An actual conversation that quite recently took place ten thousand feet
over the California desert between Captain Fraidy-Cat (CFC) and a
rather happy-go-lucky glider CFI (CFIG):

CFC: NO!! PLEASE! I'M SCARED!!!

CFIG: What are you scared of?

CFC: I DON'T KNOW!!

CFIG: Then you can't be scared. You have to at least be scared of
something. Keep your turn going.

CFC: I'M SCARED THAT SHE'S GONNA INVERT!!

CFIG: She won't. Keep your turn going.

CFC: WHEN I MAKE A TURN, THE STICK IS ALL THE WAY AGAINST MY LEG AND
IT WON'T GO ANY FURTHER!!

....but what the exhausted, flabbergasted Captain Fraidy-Cat failed to
clarify for the CFIG was that he was referring to the OPPOSITE leg,
i.e., when he was in a right turn, say, he had the stick all the way to
the LEFT, pressing on his left leg, and she still seems to be on the
verge of rolling (banking) even further to the RIGHT. And THAT is what
he was scared of.

So now we're all back on the ground in the city, all rested up and
thinking more clearly, and the question is posed to you courageous
gentlemen on this news group: Could the glider continue rolling with
hard opposite aileron? Would opposite rudder (left in the above
example) help? Type is: Schweitzer SGS 2-33.

P.S. If that thing had a decent piece of yarn for a yaw string instead
of that worn-out, raggedy, one-inch stub, this conversation might not
have taken place as such. CFC had to fly her by feel, something
usually reserved for more experienced glider pilots.

Ads
  #2  
Old July 11th 06, 03:56 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 47
Default Captain Fraidy-Cat Has a Question

You had to correct for that much adverse yaw in a 2-33?!?!?

Hope it was a 20 knotter

~tuno

  #3  
Old July 11th 06, 04:00 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bill Daniels
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 687
Default Captain Fraidy-Cat Has a Question

It's common knowledge that the 2-33 uses the students legs as aileron
control stops, hince the howls of pain from the front cockpit whenever the
instructor demonstrates a maneuver. (The student can get even by 'clearing
the controls' without warning the instructor to move vital body parts clear
of the rear stick.)

If the students legs are anything larger than skinny, those control stops
(legs) will prevent using adequate 'top' aileron to overcome overbanking
generating understandable fear of 'inverting'.

Solutions: A. Get skinnier students or B. Get a better training glilder.

Seriously, ask if the student is holding constant rudder into the turn.

Bill Daniels


"Blue Crew" wrote in message
ups.com...
An actual conversation that quite recently took place ten thousand feet
over the California desert between Captain Fraidy-Cat (CFC) and a
rather happy-go-lucky glider CFI (CFIG):

CFC: NO!! PLEASE! I'M SCARED!!!

CFIG: What are you scared of?

CFC: I DON'T KNOW!!

CFIG: Then you can't be scared. You have to at least be scared of
something. Keep your turn going.

CFC: I'M SCARED THAT SHE'S GONNA INVERT!!

CFIG: She won't. Keep your turn going.

CFC: WHEN I MAKE A TURN, THE STICK IS ALL THE WAY AGAINST MY LEG AND
IT WON'T GO ANY FURTHER!!

...but what the exhausted, flabbergasted Captain Fraidy-Cat failed to
clarify for the CFIG was that he was referring to the OPPOSITE leg,
i.e., when he was in a right turn, say, he had the stick all the way to
the LEFT, pressing on his left leg, and she still seems to be on the
verge of rolling (banking) even further to the RIGHT. And THAT is what
he was scared of.

So now we're all back on the ground in the city, all rested up and
thinking more clearly, and the question is posed to you courageous
gentlemen on this news group: Could the glider continue rolling with
hard opposite aileron? Would opposite rudder (left in the above
example) help? Type is: Schweitzer SGS 2-33.

P.S. If that thing had a decent piece of yarn for a yaw string instead
of that worn-out, raggedy, one-inch stub, this conversation might not
have taken place as such. CFC had to fly her by feel, something
usually reserved for more experienced glider pilots.



  #4  
Old July 11th 06, 04:05 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
BTIZ
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 180
Default Captain Fraidy-Cat Has a Question

Left Rudder for a right turn would have helped roll wings level, not
continue the turn to the right.

What happened to the pre takeoff ground check, Controls free and clear..
that means you can move the control (left right forward and back, all the
way around) all the way to the mechanical stop. Not to the leg or in some
cases, aft stick to the belly impact.

If the leg is in the way, then the CFC is to big to be flying the 2-33
because he cannot deflect the controls to the mechanical stop. I'm betting
that if he could have removed his left leg for the right turn, then the
controls would work as advertised.

For those not familiar with long winged gliders and steep banked turns, "top
stick" or opposite aileron is required to counter the over banking tendency.

Yaw strings are nice, but as a CFIG I can't see it most of the time anyway
from the back seat. Unless I really try to look around the front seat
pilot/student. I "sense" an out of trim condition, then look around the
front seater at the yaw string to confirm before I say something.

Take the pre-solo student out without a yaw string.

BT


"Blue Crew" wrote in message
ups.com...
An actual conversation that quite recently took place ten thousand feet
over the California desert between Captain Fraidy-Cat (CFC) and a
rather happy-go-lucky glider CFI (CFIG):

CFC: NO!! PLEASE! I'M SCARED!!!

CFIG: What are you scared of?

CFC: I DON'T KNOW!!

CFIG: Then you can't be scared. You have to at least be scared of
something. Keep your turn going.

CFC: I'M SCARED THAT SHE'S GONNA INVERT!!

CFIG: She won't. Keep your turn going.

CFC: WHEN I MAKE A TURN, THE STICK IS ALL THE WAY AGAINST MY LEG AND
IT WON'T GO ANY FURTHER!!

...but what the exhausted, flabbergasted Captain Fraidy-Cat failed to
clarify for the CFIG was that he was referring to the OPPOSITE leg,
i.e., when he was in a right turn, say, he had the stick all the way to
the LEFT, pressing on his left leg, and she still seems to be on the
verge of rolling (banking) even further to the RIGHT. And THAT is what
he was scared of.

So now we're all back on the ground in the city, all rested up and
thinking more clearly, and the question is posed to you courageous
gentlemen on this news group: Could the glider continue rolling with
hard opposite aileron? Would opposite rudder (left in the above
example) help? Type is: Schweitzer SGS 2-33.

P.S. If that thing had a decent piece of yarn for a yaw string instead
of that worn-out, raggedy, one-inch stub, this conversation might not
have taken place as such. CFC had to fly her by feel, something
usually reserved for more experienced glider pilots.



  #5  
Old July 11th 06, 08:31 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
quietman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default Captain Fraidy-Cat Has a Question

Pretty funny.

I only fly a 2-33 once in a while and always have a moment or two at
first where I wonder..."is the stick still connected?!!!"

A good technique in a turn is to STAND on the rudder in the direction
you desire, LIFT the opposite leg up high and PUSH the stick to the
fabric under that leg...perfect!

;-)

quietman
www.roenation.com

  #6  
Old July 11th 06, 09:33 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Z Goudie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default Captain Fraidy-Cat Has a Question

At 07:36 11 July 2006, Quietman wrote:
Pretty funny.

I only fly a 2-33 once in a while and always have a
moment or two at
first where I wonder...'is the stick still connected?!!!'

A good technique in a turn is to STAND on the rudder
in the direction
you desire, LIFT the opposite leg up high and PUSH
the stick to the
fabric under that leg...perfect!


Jings, crivvens and help ma boab, do these things actually
have Certificates of Airworthiness???



  #7  
Old July 11th 06, 09:44 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dave Boulter
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6
Default Captain Fraidy-Cat Has a Question

Blue Crew wrote:


...but what the exhausted, flabbergasted Captain Fraidy-Cat failed to
clarify for the CFIG was that he was referring to the OPPOSITE leg,
i.e., when he was in a right turn, say, he had the stick all the way to
the LEFT, pressing on his left leg, and she still seems to be on the
verge of rolling (banking) even further to the RIGHT. And THAT is what
he was scared of.


Trying to lift the right wing up by stick to the far left...turning to
the right....the word spin comes to mind.....not holding off bank

/daveb
  #8  
Old July 11th 06, 02:02 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bill Daniels
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 687
Default Captain Fraidy-Cat Has a Question


"quietman" wrote in message
ps.com...
Pretty funny.

I only fly a 2-33 once in a while and always have a moment or two at
first where I wonder..."is the stick still connected?!!!"

A good technique in a turn is to STAND on the rudder in the direction
you desire, LIFT the opposite leg up high and PUSH the stick to the
fabric under that leg...perfect!

;-)

quietman
www.roenation.com


Try this. While on the ground, install the student in the front seat of a
2-33, ask him to open the spoilers 50% and then try to use left aileron.
You will find the students left leg is pinned between the spoiler handle and
the stick limiting stick travel to about 2". Now, imagine trying to handle
a left crosswind gust just before touchdown.

bildan


  #9  
Old July 11th 06, 02:10 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
kirk.stant
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,257
Default Captain Fraidy-Cat Has a Question

Ahh yes, the joys of the wonderful 2-33; the apotheosis of American
glider design, the best trainer ever built, etc. choke puke....

Turn them all into hubcaps, I say!

Seriously, those horrible things do more to damage the sport in the US
than an army of lawyers.

66

  #10  
Old July 11th 06, 02:29 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Papa3
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 444
Default Captain Fraidy-Cat Has a Question

BTIZ wrote:

What happened to the pre takeoff ground check, Controls free and clear..
that means you can move the control (left right forward and back, all the
way around) all the way to the mechanical stop. Not to the leg or in some
cases, aft stick to the belly impact.

If the leg is in the way, then the CFC is to big to be flying the 2-33
because he cannot deflect the controls to the mechanical stop. I'm betting
that if he could have removed his left leg for the right turn, then the
controls would work as advertised.


BT


Got a lot of time in 2-33's?? This is a common problem affecting
anyone other than the anorexic or pre-pubescent teen students.
Solution typically involves having the student remove opposite foot
from rudder pedal enabling leg to be pulled back to where the thinner
shin-bone doesn't get in the way (quite as much).

Erik Mann (P3)

 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Air Force One Had to Intercept Some Inadvertent Flyers / How? Rick Umali Piloting 29 February 15th 06 05:40 AM
From the Jim Campbell, Captain Zoom archives (all of 6 years ago) Mick Home Built 49 February 3rd 06 04:27 PM
Nearly had my life terminated today Michelle P Piloting 11 September 3rd 05 02:37 AM
A Sea Story (OT and long) Mike Kanze Naval Aviation 4 March 14th 05 04:51 AM
USAF = US Amphetamine Fools RT Military Aviation 104 September 25th 03 03:17 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:34 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2020 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.