Slow Flight

Only slightly related to our topic, but in closing the skating
comparisons to flying, and since you are interested in the creative side
of the skating equation, I thought you might enjoy watching the video I
have linked with this post.
This is a video recreation by a very creative person of one of the
demonstrations I used to fly on the air show circuit in the P51 Mustang.
This fellow actually wrote to me and asked for the exact maneuver
sequence and even the location airport over which the display was flown
is accurate.
He did an absolutely marvelous job of it. When I watch this myself, I'm
sorry I didn't use music in the actual demonstration :-))



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4LODPguzTc
--
Dudley Henriques

wrote in message...
.... BUT why would you ever want to _fly_ so close
to stall? It's really dangerous to be just 10k above stall speed
in any part of the circuit and that speed is not good for anything
in real flight (terrible lift:drag and poor control response)... So
what's the point?

Quite a few years back I flew with CAP where we did endless training of
ground ref manouvers at slow flight. One of the greatest concerns of the IPs
was to lose a search plane because the pilot got distracted when
investigating an item of interest while he was low and slow.

On Sep 8, 11:03 am, Ol Shy & Bashful wrote:
There is little doubt in my mind that the ability to do slow flight at
the very edge of stall speed will do more to prevent accidents than
1000 hours of cruise speed flight. Is there anyone here who is
proficient that lands their aircraft more than 10kts above stall
speed?
I teach all my students to slow fly with the entire range of
configurations for the particular aircraft they are flying. Gear up/
down, flaps up/down/in-between. I want them to be comfortable flying
at the very edge of the stall speeds and spend a lot of time
maneuvering right on the edge of a stall "nibble". It does more for
pilot confidence and ability than anything else I can think of. They
learn proper control useage and how their particular aircraft responds
while in the low speed areas. Playing with different angles of bank
while at low speeds and flying with a modicum of accuracy does a lot
for proper control use.
If you think about it, how many accidents occur in the low speed
spectrum? Either from a stall, or from a high sink rate on approach,
or poor control use during an emergency or off airport landing, or
something similar?
In my opinion, the pilot who is comfortable throughout the entire
speed range of their aircraft is a properly trained pilot and one who
will not get into an inadvertant stall, or spin.
What are your thoughts?

I agree with you on the importance of slow flight but for a slightly
different reason. I think slow flight and stalls end up being seen by
student's as more of a rite-of-passage more than anything else. My
approach is to place an intense concentration on the indicators of
stall in their aircraft (stall horn, sloppy ailerons, buffeting, nose
drop, more buffet, then break). Therefore, I see slow flight more as a
way to ensure that students have enough experience with these
sensations to recognize them when they need to. In addition, I think
most CFI's teach slow flight at WAY to high of a speed. If the student
doesn't accidently stall on occasion its almost guaranteed that their
slow flight is too fast. In your standard Cessna/Piper type products
the plane should be bucking like a wild horse during slow flight.

Robert M. Gary wrote:
On Sep 8, 11:03 am, Ol Shy & Bashful wrote:
There is little doubt in my mind that the ability to do slow flight at
the very edge of stall speed will do more to prevent accidents than
1000 hours of cruise speed flight. Is there anyone here who is
proficient that lands their aircraft more than 10kts above stall
speed?
I teach all my students to slow fly with the entire range of
configurations for the particular aircraft they are flying. Gear up/
down, flaps up/down/in-between. I want them to be comfortable flying
at the very edge of the stall speeds and spend a lot of time
maneuvering right on the edge of a stall "nibble". It does more for
pilot confidence and ability than anything else I can think of. They
learn proper control useage and how their particular aircraft responds
while in the low speed areas. Playing with different angles of bank
while at low speeds and flying with a modicum of accuracy does a lot
for proper control use.
If you think about it, how many accidents occur in the low speed
spectrum? Either from a stall, or from a high sink rate on approach,
or poor control use during an emergency or off airport landing, or
something similar?
In my opinion, the pilot who is comfortable throughout the entire
speed range of their aircraft is a properly trained pilot and one who
will not get into an inadvertant stall, or spin.
What are your thoughts?

I agree with you on the importance of slow flight but for a slightly
different reason. I think slow flight and stalls end up being seen by
student's as more of a rite-of-passage more than anything else. My
approach is to place an intense concentration on the indicators of
stall in their aircraft (stall horn, sloppy ailerons, buffeting, nose
drop, more buffet, then break). Therefore, I see slow flight more as a
way to ensure that students have enough experience with these
sensations to recognize them when they need to. In addition, I think
most CFI's teach slow flight at WAY to high of a speed. If the student
doesn't accidently stall on occasion its almost guaranteed that their
slow flight is too fast. In your standard Cessna/Piper type products
the plane should be bucking like a wild horse during slow flight.

I also approach slow flight and stall in this manner.

On the "right of passage" issue;
I believe instructors should be specifically tuned into this issue and
address it as 101 with every student they teach.
The mindset that learning to fly is simply to surmount the obstacles
placed in front of the student then reach out and accept the PPL is a
concept that I personally would like to see driven out of aviation.
Instructors should from the first meeting with a new student,make every
effort possible to down play the "steeping stones" required on the way
to the PPL and instead impart on the student the critical importance
connected with the actual learning involved.
The problem with the "right of passage" mindset is that students and
instructors alike have a tendency to consider these "accomplishments" as
the pinnacle of the learning curve for the area affected with learning
decreasing on the backside of that subject's pinnacle as learning on the
next required "step" proceeds.

Learning to fly an airplane is a process that begins the first day you
climb into an airplane and ends as you take the last breath of your
life. If you have been taught properly by a good CFI, there is a very
good chance that this last moment and breath you take as the learning
stops won't be in an airplane.


--
Dudley Henriques

Damn!! Dudley you have a way with words! What a great concept.

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...
snip
.. If you have been taught properly by a good CFI, there is a very
good chance that this last moment and breath you take as the learning
stops won't be in an airplane.


--
Dudley Henriques

On Sep 10, 10:24 am, "PPL-A (Canada)" wrote:
On Sep 8, 2:03 pm, Ol Shy & Bashful wrote:

There is little doubt in my mind that the ability to do slow flight at
the very edge of stall speed will do more to prevent accidents than
1000 hours of cruise speed flight. Is there anyone here who is
proficient that lands their aircraft more than 10kts above stall
speed?
...
In my opinion, the pilot who is comfortable throughout the entire
speed range of their aircraft is a properly trained pilot and one who
will not get into an inadvertant stall, or spin.
What are your thoughts?

Other then the obvious objections (expressed here by many others)
regarding navigation skills ,and calm, ordered responses to
emergencies, as well as interpreting and dealing with weather both
before and during flight, I think you have identified a skill that
needs to be driven home and repeated again and again with ab initio
students until they are comfortable handling the aircraft in any
configuration in the slow-flight regime, and, indeed, transitioning
between different configurations while in slow flight, as well as
handling turns, climbs descents, and simulated "approaches" while in
slow flight. (They should get to enjoy it so much that they get in
the habit of practicing it themselves as often as possible after
certification!)

It is such an important concept (the backside of the power curve and
what it really means ... try explaining this only once or twice to a
typical driver of a car ... I usually only get confused looks even
after sketching it out on paper) that no student (no doubt most used
to driving a car where one power equals one speed on a flat driving
surface) should be considered proficient at slow flight until they can
not only DO it but also sketch their aircrafts power curve and explain
it to their instructor, identifying all the important point, as well
as explaining how it is that a range of power settings correspond to
more than one airspeed on the curve.

Anyway ... one small thing that relates to slow flight that I found
improved my approaches in early training immediately and considerably
was the realization that for a given power setting and rate of descent
(in feet per minute ), the airspeed would be the same every single
time. This allowed me to have a stable approach set up very quickly
after turning base and resulted in instantly noticeably better
approaches and landings on the next lesson after I learned this (my
instructor at the time noticed the improvement immediately,
unfortunately it wasn't him that taught me this fact ... I found it on
a website produced by another flight instructor ... it was a great
site, can't remember its URL now). The airspeed that I aimed for was
usually a few knots above slow flight (I aimed for approach speed for
short field landing, plus a few knots if it was a little windy or
gusty) and of course there was descent involved (about 500 fpm in the
172SP was typical).

Long story short ... slow flight training made me comfortable with
reducing the power considerably, accurately, and consistently and
confidently (to about 1000 - 1300 RPM initially depending on the
headwind, again 172SP) when turning base (not just slowly stepping the
power and speed down, which consumed too much time on base), quickly
and confidently aiming for an approach speed close to a "performance"
landing approach speed every time, and with the speed (172 SP - about
61 - 65 KIAS) and descent rate (initially aiming for 500 fpm) stable
and trimmed out, all that was required to attend to was the drift, any
shear on descent, and staying on a good approach slope visually, while
occasionally glancing at the airspeed to ensure it wasn't bleeding
off. This usually only required small power adjustments to keep on a
proper the approach slope, and of course with more headwind, more
power on final.

While many other skills (especially navigation, emergency procedures,
and weather assessment) are required to become (and remain) a safe,
confident but circumspect pilot, with respect to consistent and
confident aircraft control, there's nothing like slow flight to hone
one's skills and feel like you are flying the aircraft, and not the
other way around.

JAI PPL-A(SEL)
Canada

JAI
Well written reply. Thanks
Ol S&B Canada Commercial #408XXX USA #1550XXX

john hawkins wrote:
Damn!! Dudley you have a way with words! What a great concept.

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...
snip
. If you have been taught properly by a good CFI, there is a very
good chance that this last moment and breath you take as the learning
stops won't be in an airplane.


--
Dudley Henriques


Comes in handy when my wife appears at the head of the stairs and asks me,
"Do I look fatter in the red dress or the blue one hon?"
:-))

--
Dudley Henriques

On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 22:19:06 -0400, Dudley Henriques
wrote:

john hawkins wrote:
Damn!! Dudley you have a way with words! What a great concept.

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...
snip
. If you have been taught properly by a good CFI, there is a very
good chance that this last moment and breath you take as the learning
stops won't be in an airplane.


--
Dudley Henriques


Comes in handy when my wife appears at the head of the stairs and asks me,
"Do I look fatter in the red dress or the blue one hon?"

That's when your survival training and judgemental ability complement
each other. :-))

Roger (K8RI)

:-))

Some asked why we'd ever do slow flight or MCA in the pattern. We
don't practice it there, BUT one of our 150s went out with a student
and instructor and blew a jug right off the engine as they were
leaving the pattern. The had to fly almost the whole pattern at MCA
just to keep it in the air and even then they were slowly losing
altitude. They did make the runway and I hear it was a pretty good
landing.

The previous lesson had been slow flight and MCA

"Roger (K8RI)" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 22:19:06 -0400, Dudley Henriques
wrote:



Comes in handy when my wife appears at the head of the stairs and asks me,
"Do I look fatter in the red dress or the blue one hon?"

That's when your survival training and judgemental ability complement
each other. :-))

Not to mention very good health and "accident" insurance.