Practicing my scan

In a previous article, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com said:
Paul Tomblin wrote:
Get yourself a yoke. I like the CH which also includes throttle, gear and
flap switches, along with several programable other switches. I am a firm
believer

Many years ago I bought a CH yoke and a copy of Elite, but I never used it
because I just hated the feel of the CH yoke. The springs just don't act
anything like a real plane, especialy in pitch. I ended up not using it
for pitch at all, just flying the trim. Are the new ones better?


I don't know. The one thing I did which improved mine no end on controlling
pitch was I lubricated the shaft with silicon grease. Before each session I run
it back and forth while turning it to its stops, which breaks up any friction
points. It operates MUCH more smoothly at that point.

I don't think that would help my big problem with the yoke. I mean, just
for instance, think of establishing a climb. In the plane, you pull back,
adjust a bit to get the pitch right, then adjust the trim to take the
force out. With the CH yoke, you can pull back, but if you want to hold
that, instead of a natural "trimming out the force", you've got to put in
enough trim to hold the climb while letting the yoke return to spring
neutral, which requires some bizarre coordination. I don't know what you
call that, but it's nothing like flying. Like I said, when I try it, I
usually end up ignoring the yoke and using the trim wheel entirely.

Same with bank angles - if you let go of the yoke entirely, it sits there
at neutral. A real yoke bounces around and requires correction. And if
you apply a very small force to one side of a real yoke, like if you're
not supporting your arm on the arm rest properly, the plane will slowly
follow that force into a bank. The CH yoke will let you know you're doing
that by spring force.

--
Paul Tomblin http://blog.xcski.com/
Science is like sex: sometimes something useful comes out, but that's
not why we're doing it.
-- Richard Feynman

On 09/18/07 06:01, Paul Tomblin wrote:
In a previous article, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com said:
Paul Tomblin wrote:
Get yourself a yoke. I like the CH which also includes throttle, gear and
flap switches, along with several programable other switches. I am a firm
believer

Many years ago I bought a CH yoke and a copy of Elite, but I never used it
because I just hated the feel of the CH yoke. The springs just don't act
anything like a real plane, especialy in pitch. I ended up not using it
for pitch at all, just flying the trim. Are the new ones better?


I don't know. The one thing I did which improved mine no end on controlling
pitch was I lubricated the shaft with silicon grease. Before each session I run
it back and forth while turning it to its stops, which breaks up any friction
points. It operates MUCH more smoothly at that point.

I don't think that would help my big problem with the yoke. I mean, just
for instance, think of establishing a climb. In the plane, you pull back,
adjust a bit to get the pitch right, then adjust the trim to take the
force out. With the CH yoke, you can pull back, but if you want to hold
that, instead of a natural "trimming out the force", you've got to put in
enough trim to hold the climb while letting the yoke return to spring
neutral, which requires some bizarre coordination. I don't know what you
call that, but it's nothing like flying. Like I said, when I try it, I
usually end up ignoring the yoke and using the trim wheel entirely.

Same with bank angles - if you let go of the yoke entirely, it sits there
at neutral. A real yoke bounces around and requires correction. And if
you apply a very small force to one side of a real yoke, like if you're
not supporting your arm on the arm rest properly, the plane will slowly
follow that force into a bank. The CH yoke will let you know you're doing
that by spring force.


Well, it's true that the CH yoke does not provide the feel of a real
airplane - but I think there is only one person on this planet who
would argue with that anyway ;-)

However, it's not that hard to get used to. And as for practicing the scan,
having the attitude harder to control is not such a bad thing. It really
gets you looking at the instruments.

When I'm practicing my scan, I'll hand fly the sim, including changes in
airspeed, altitude, direction, etc. - all are more difficult in the sim
than in the real plane, but that just provide for more practice in watching
and reacting to the instruments.

When I'm practicing navigation or approaches, I'll make more use of the
auto pilot - usually just altitude hold as it can be frustrating trying
to hold altitude by hand in the sim.

It's been a long time since I've tried to fly with a mouse or keyboard, but
the yoke is a big step up in my opinion.

By the way, I don't use the mechanical trim wheel mounted on the CH yoke.
I use the electric trim via a rocker switch.



--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane, USUA Ultralight Pilot
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

B A R R Y wrote:
I don't know. The one thing I did which improved mine no end on controlling
pitch was I lubricated the shaft with silicon grease. Before each session I
run it back and forth while turning it to its stops, which breaks up any
friction points. It operates MUCH more smoothly at that point.

I have that same yoke, which I hate. Your suggestion sounds like it's
got a lot of potential.

By silicone grease, do you mean the clear stuff, like "bulb grease?"


I'm not sure it's the same. I've got some "bulb grease" which looks like the
same stuff but it has the consistency of a bar of soap or a wax candle. The
stuff I used on my yoke is the same silicon grease I used to lube o-rings when I
worked on scuba regulators. It's translucent, can come in either a squeeze tube
or a small tub and has the same consistency as car grease or toothpaste. The
reason I use silicon grease instead of car grease is that it doesn't ruin
clothes and I know the silicon won't degrade rubber parts. Besides, I've got
plenty of it left over from my dive shop days.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

Paul Tomblin wrote:
I don't know. The one thing I did which improved mine no end on controlling
pitch was I lubricated the shaft with silicon grease. Before each session I
run it back and forth while turning it to its stops, which breaks up any
friction points. It operates MUCH more smoothly at that point.

I don't think that would help my big problem with the yoke. I mean, just
for instance, think of establishing a climb. In the plane, you pull back,
adjust a bit to get the pitch right, then adjust the trim to take the
force out. With the CH yoke, you can pull back, but if you want to hold
that, instead of a natural "trimming out the force", you've got to put in
enough trim to hold the climb while letting the yoke return to spring
neutral, which requires some bizarre coordination. I don't know what you
call that, but it's nothing like flying. Like I said, when I try it, I
usually end up ignoring the yoke and using the trim wheel entirely.


I will acknowledge it doesn't operate the same as a real airplane. In fact, the
way the trim operates is the main reason it doesn't... at least in normal modes
of flight. This is why it's damned near worthless in teaching primary flight.

That being said, I've got the trim programmed into the gray momentary toggle on
the left horn of the yoke. I handle the adjustment with my left thumb. It's
just not that big of a problem.


Same with bank angles - if you let go of the yoke entirely, it sits there
at neutral. A real yoke bounces around and requires correction. And if
you apply a very small force to one side of a real yoke, like if you're
not supporting your arm on the arm rest properly, the plane will slowly
follow that force into a bank. The CH yoke will let you know you're doing
that by spring force.


And all of that requires you keep your scan going to catch it, right? You can't
just put it somewhere and expect it to stay there without some correction. I
will remind you the whole point of this discussion was to assist in keeping scan
speed up for someone who doesn't fly IFR often enough. Can you think of a more
cost effective way to accomplish that?

Only somebody who's never flown is going to think MSFS is very realistic. But
it's a very good procedure and scan exercise for IFR purposes. BTW, I always
use the 2-D mode with the instrument panel taking up much of the view. I still
can't land it worth a damn but that's OK... I can land a real airplane just
fine. Like I said, nobody will mistake one for the other.

And unlike a regular airplane, I can go back and print out a sheet that shows
how closely I followed the ILS on the way down, both hortizontally and
vertically.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

Mark Hansen wrote:
However, it's not that hard to get used to. And as for practicing the scan,
having the attitude harder to control is not such a bad thing. It really
gets you looking at the instruments.


Which was the point.


By the way, I don't use the mechanical trim wheel mounted on the CH yoke.
I use the electric trim via a rocker switch.


Exactly. It has been said that the measure of a man's genius is how much he
agrees with you. You, sir, are a veritable Einstein. G



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:
It's translucent, can come in either a squeeze tube
or a small tub and has the same consistency as car grease or toothpaste.

Ahhh! I have some of that stuff for mountain bike shocks.

Paul Tomblin wrote:



Many years ago I bought a CH yoke and a copy of Elite, but I never used it
because I just hated the feel of the CH yoke. The springs just don't act
anything like a real plane, especialy in pitch. I ended up not using it
for pitch at all, just flying the trim. Are the new ones better?


Exactly my experience. Does the old Elite run under XP? (I think I
have version 4.something of elite, which has a box that connectos to the
the computer via a serial Rs232 port.

I also use MSFS for getting my head in the game. I 've never tried a yoke,
just a joystick. I have flown IRL with both stick and yoke so don't mind
using the joystick.

Trim is a bitch. I downloaded real trim from Avsim http://www.avsim.com/

Join the group (free) and download realtrim11.zip from the avsim library



RealTrim is a Microsoft Flight Simulator 2004(tm) module that makes trimming
aircrafts more realistic and resemble real-life. It can be activated via
key-press when the sim-pilot moves the joystick from deflection to neutral,
hence converting the movement of the joystick into movement of the trim
wheel. This matches real-life where back/forward pressure on the elevator
applied by the pilot is trimmed out by ONE operation: moving the trim-wheel.
As the sim-pilot smoothly moves the joystick into neutral position RealTrim
automatically adjusts the elevator trim by a corresponding amount. The
airplane keeps its current pitch configuration - only ONE control input is
required instead of the pilots having to move the joystick into neutral
WHILE tapping the trim-key at the same time. RealTrim also comes with an
option to reduce trim increments making it more precise to adjust trim in
flight with the trim up/down keys.



It works on MOST of the aircraft models ( I usually stick with the baseline
Cessna 182)

It is not like the real thing since there are no pressures to trim out but
it does allow you to trim to a mainly hands off configuration.



I agree with the rest of the guys who advise setting ceiling and visibility
to around minimums. Who needs all the outside view eye candy anyway. Well
maybe the approach lights at night are neat.



The ATC simulation is terrible so I usually ignore it or use the add on
product Radar Contact from http://www.jdtllc.com/ This is not free but it
does add some realism. I like the after flight review. Even if sometimes
they do tell me that FSDO is going to require me to visit them.



Now if they just had a good aerodynamic model and a way to integrate GARMIN
simulation, all would be perfect.



John H.

"Peter R." wrote in message
...
On 9/17/2007 7:25:32 PM, wrote:

Would using it with a mouse provide reasonable scan practice, or do I
need
to buy a yoke or joystick?

IMO, if you can find a cheap yoke (CH Yoke on eBay or via comparison web
shopping), consider purchasing it as it will take away the majority of the
difficulty in controlling the sim aircraft while you are practicing your
scan. Second would be a joystick and third would be the mouse. The
keyboard
completes the list of easiest-to-most difficult control of the sim
aircraft
while practicing your scan.

--
Peter