A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Owning
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Going for my Multiengine rating



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old September 25th 07, 03:26 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.owning,rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
john hawkins
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 69
Default Going for my Multiengine rating

I'm not sure what gender has to do with it. I know that my daugher, who is a
competion horse rider can toss hay bales around a whole lot better than I
can. and i can flare and land a nose heavy A36 just fine.


"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
...
Live long and prosper. There are a number of NTSB reports
that involve female pilots involved in fatal accidents in
various makes and models. Often these involve Vmc
demonstrations and other operations such as engine out
go-around [not required in light twins, but a required
maneuver in transport category/jets.]


"Michelle P"
wrote in message ...
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| There are some airplanes that are easy to load outside
the
| flight envelope. Many multiengine airplanes are
designed to
| carry passengers and baggage. With only the front seats
| occupied, some ballast in the rear can be essential.
|
| You should read some FAR 23 on flight control forces
| allowed.
|
| I have a few thousand hours teaching in multiengine
aircraft
| and just flying charter and delivery, from Piper Aztecs,
| Beech Duchess and Barons, Dukes, King Ai r 90, 200 and
300.
| Jet time is in the Beechjet 400, trust me, your life can
| depend on your being able to push and pull the controls
to
| the limit with one leg or one hand.
|
| I bow to your godliness..almighty one.
| Michelle




  #12  
Old September 25th 07, 06:47 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.owning,rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
Jim Macklin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,070
Default Going for my Multiengine rating

Gender has nothing that must cause the problem, but a 102
pound female has to work harder to push the 150 pounds on
the rudder pedal that is what is required to match the Vmc
numbers, or to pull or push the elevator when the trim is
run-away or just miss-set. And the typical two place
trainer has a narrow CH envelope and most multiengine
airplanes have a wide CG range, when only the front seats
are occupied, elevator forces will be greater.

Lots of farms girls and city raised girls who get into
horses, learn very quickly that a 70# hay bale can be moved,
with effort. Then they learn that the exercise makes them
stronger and the bales seem easier to move.

I was just telling the young lady, that using the trim for
the flare, below 1.3 Vso may get her killed and it won't
increase her upper body strength.

There are males with low strength and there are females with
high strength. But the aerodynamic facts are gender
neutral, if you trim right down to stall speed and have to
do a go-around, you are asking to die if you don't have the
strength.

There is a maneuver that can be done safely at altitude in
most airplanes, a trim stall.



"john hawkins" wrote in message
et...
| I'm not sure what gender has to do with it. I know that my
daugher, who is a
| competion horse rider can toss hay bales around a whole
lot better than I
| can. and i can flare and land a nose heavy A36 just fine.
|
|
| "Jim Macklin" wrote
in message
| ...
| Live long and prosper. There are a number of NTSB
reports
| that involve female pilots involved in fatal accidents
in
| various makes and models. Often these involve Vmc
| demonstrations and other operations such as engine out
| go-around [not required in light twins, but a required
| maneuver in transport category/jets.]
|
|
| "Michelle P"
| wrote in message
...
| | Jim Macklin wrote:
| | There are some airplanes that are easy to load
outside
| the
| | flight envelope. Many multiengine airplanes are
| designed to
| | carry passengers and baggage. With only the front
seats
| | occupied, some ballast in the rear can be essential.
| |
| | You should read some FAR 23 on flight control forces
| | allowed.
| |
| | I have a few thousand hours teaching in multiengine
| aircraft
| | and just flying charter and delivery, from Piper
Aztecs,
| | Beech Duchess and Barons, Dukes, King Ai r 90, 200
and
| 300.
| | Jet time is in the Beechjet 400, trust me, your life
can
| | depend on your being able to push and pull the
controls
| to
| | the limit with one leg or one hand.
| |
| | I bow to your godliness..almighty one.
| | Michelle
|
|
|
|


  #13  
Old September 25th 07, 06:48 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.owning,rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
The Visitor[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 69
Default Going for my Multiengine rating

My Seneca is. So I don't use full flaps unless there is some aft weight.
Without anything in the back, the cg is almost at the front limit. Just
"two notches". To flare nice with full flaps invites a tail stall. Very
common and I was taught, that is why there is the abundance of nose gear
collapses in the type. Because the pounding the nose gear is given.
Rolling in nose up trim makes things easier. It is just done when over
the numbers, entering a flare.

John

Michelle P wrote:

Jim Macklin wrote:

Be careful with using the electric trim to flare. Assuming
that the airplane is properly loaded with the CG within the
range, the elevator forces required between an approach
speed of 1.3 Vso and the flare should be slight. Do a W&B
for your landing configuration, be sure to check for an
items stowed in a forward baggage area and for fuel.

The problem that WILL happen is at some point you will gave
to go-around, that means you will need a hand on the power
and you will REALLY need two hands on the elevator because
the electric trim isn't fast enough, you will have a sudden
need to hold the nose down, will loose A/S, perhaps even
stall, then the real bad thing can happen, en engine
failure, Vmc and spin at 100 AGL.

Do some exercise with weights, it is safer.

there are some planes that are just nose heavy.


  #14  
Old September 27th 07, 02:38 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.owning,rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
Margy Natalie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 476
Default Going for my Multiengine rating

IMHO it's not only the weight but the height, there's a big difference
between pulling the yoke back when you are 20 inches away and 10 inches
away. I know.

Margy

Jim Macklin wrote:
Gender has nothing that must cause the problem, but a 102
pound female has to work harder to push the 150 pounds on
the rudder pedal that is what is required to match the Vmc
numbers, or to pull or push the elevator when the trim is
run-away or just miss-set. And the typical two place
trainer has a narrow CH envelope and most multiengine
airplanes have a wide CG range, when only the front seats
are occupied, elevator forces will be greater.

Lots of farms girls and city raised girls who get into
horses, learn very quickly that a 70# hay bale can be moved,
with effort. Then they learn that the exercise makes them
stronger and the bales seem easier to move.

I was just telling the young lady, that using the trim for
the flare, below 1.3 Vso may get her killed and it won't
increase her upper body strength.

There are males with low strength and there are females with
high strength. But the aerodynamic facts are gender
neutral, if you trim right down to stall speed and have to
do a go-around, you are asking to die if you don't have the
strength.

There is a maneuver that can be done safely at altitude in
most airplanes, a trim stall.



"john hawkins" wrote in message
et...
| I'm not sure what gender has to do with it. I know that my
daugher, who is a
| competion horse rider can toss hay bales around a whole
lot better than I
| can. and i can flare and land a nose heavy A36 just fine.
|
|
| "Jim Macklin" wrote
in message
| ...
| Live long and prosper. There are a number of NTSB
reports
| that involve female pilots involved in fatal accidents
in
| various makes and models. Often these involve Vmc
| demonstrations and other operations such as engine out
| go-around [not required in light twins, but a required
| maneuver in transport category/jets.]
|
|
| "Michelle P"
| wrote in message
...
| | Jim Macklin wrote:
| | There are some airplanes that are easy to load
outside
| the
| | flight envelope. Many multiengine airplanes are
| designed to
| | carry passengers and baggage. With only the front
seats
| | occupied, some ballast in the rear can be essential.
| |
| | You should read some FAR 23 on flight control forces
| | allowed.
| |
| | I have a few thousand hours teaching in multiengine
| aircraft
| | and just flying charter and delivery, from Piper
Aztecs,
| | Beech Duchess and Barons, Dukes, King Ai r 90, 200
and
| 300.
| | Jet time is in the Beechjet 400, trust me, your life
can
| | depend on your being able to push and pull the
controls
| to
| | the limit with one leg or one hand.
| |
| | I bow to your godliness..almighty one.
| | Michelle
|
|
|
|


  #15  
Old September 27th 07, 04:37 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.owning,rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
Morgans[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,924
Default Going for my Multiengine rating


"Margy Natalie" wrote

IMHO it's not only the weight but the height, there's a big difference
between pulling the yoke back when you are 20 inches away and 10 inches
away. I know.


I think I am following your thought, but I'm not sure.

Are you saying your height (or lack of it ;-) puts you so close to the yoke
(10 inches) that the closeness makes it much more difficult to pull hard on
the yoke?

I'm assuming that the pedals on the Navion are not adjustable, and that is
what puts you so close to the yoke?
--
Jim in NC


  #16  
Old September 27th 07, 05:57 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.owning,rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
Jim Macklin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,070
Default Going for my Multiengine rating

Very true, full travel is required. That can be difficult
with short legs and arms.


"Margy Natalie" wrote in message
m...
| IMHO it's not only the weight but the height, there's a
big difference
| between pulling the yoke back when you are 20 inches away
and 10 inches
| away. I know.
|
| Margy
|
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| Gender has nothing that must cause the problem, but a
102
| pound female has to work harder to push the 150 pounds
on
| the rudder pedal that is what is required to match the
Vmc
| numbers, or to pull or push the elevator when the trim
is
| run-away or just miss-set. And the typical two place
| trainer has a narrow CH envelope and most multiengine
| airplanes have a wide CG range, when only the front
seats
| are occupied, elevator forces will be greater.
|
| Lots of farms girls and city raised girls who get into
| horses, learn very quickly that a 70# hay bale can be
moved,
| with effort. Then they learn that the exercise makes
them
| stronger and the bales seem easier to move.
|
| I was just telling the young lady, that using the trim
for
| the flare, below 1.3 Vso may get her killed and it won't
| increase her upper body strength.
|
| There are males with low strength and there are females
with
| high strength. But the aerodynamic facts are gender
| neutral, if you trim right down to stall speed and have
to
| do a go-around, you are asking to die if you don't have
the
| strength.
|
| There is a maneuver that can be done safely at altitude
in
| most airplanes, a trim stall.
|
|
|
| "john hawkins" wrote in
message
| et...
| | I'm not sure what gender has to do with it. I know
that my
| daugher, who is a
| | competion horse rider can toss hay bales around a
whole
| lot better than I
| | can. and i can flare and land a nose heavy A36 just
fine.
| |
| |
| | "Jim Macklin"
wrote
| in message
| | ...
| | Live long and prosper. There are a number of NTSB
| reports
| | that involve female pilots involved in fatal
accidents
| in
| | various makes and models. Often these involve Vmc
| | demonstrations and other operations such as engine
out
| | go-around [not required in light twins, but a
required
| | maneuver in transport category/jets.]
| |
| |
| | "Michelle P"

| | wrote in message
| ...
| | | Jim Macklin wrote:
| | | There are some airplanes that are easy to load
| outside
| | the
| | | flight envelope. Many multiengine airplanes are
| | designed to
| | | carry passengers and baggage. With only the
front
| seats
| | | occupied, some ballast in the rear can be
essential.
| | |
| | | You should read some FAR 23 on flight control
forces
| | | allowed.
| | |
| | | I have a few thousand hours teaching in
multiengine
| | aircraft
| | | and just flying charter and delivery, from Piper
| Aztecs,
| | | Beech Duchess and Barons, Dukes, King Ai r 90,
200
| and
| | 300.
| | | Jet time is in the Beechjet 400, trust me, your
life
| can
| | | depend on your being able to push and pull the
| controls
| | to
| | | the limit with one leg or one hand.
| | |
| | | I bow to your godliness..almighty one.
| | | Michelle
| |
| |
| |
| |
|
|


  #17  
Old September 27th 07, 06:57 AM posted to rec.aviation.owning,rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
Montblack
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 972
Default Going for my Multiengine rating

("Morgans" wrote)
IMHO it's not only the weight but the height, there's a big difference
between pulling the yoke back when you are 20 inches away and 10 inches
away. I know.


I think I am following your thought, but I'm not sure.

Are you saying your height (or lack of it ;-) puts you so close to the
yoke (10 inches) that the closeness makes it much more difficult to pull
hard on the yoke?



I think she's saying ....she never had any problems getting dates in H.S. or
college, and that Ron is one lucky fella, IYKWIM. g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uWynkMaVno
"She's an Eagle When She Flies" - Dolly


Montblack
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgOBzs4UP-Y
Ok, this one was for me :-)



  #18  
Old September 27th 07, 07:41 AM posted to rec.aviation.owning,rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
Morgans[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,924
Default Going for my Multiengine rating


"Montblack" wrote

I think she's saying ....she never had any problems getting dates in H.S.
or college, and that Ron is one lucky fella, IYKWIM. g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uWynkMaVno
"She's an Eagle When She Flies" - Dolly


I musta' been using the wrong key, decoding the last message. You obviously
have the right key! ;-)

And she is pretty "spunky", for a 5' nothing, too!

I heard she always flys IFR, 'cause she can't see over the glareshield! g

Kidding, of course. I'm sure there are no short jokes Margy hasn't heard,
before! g
--
Jim in NC



  #19  
Old September 28th 07, 12:05 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.owning,rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
Margy Natalie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 476
Default Going for my Multiengine rating

Morgans wrote:
"Margy Natalie" wrote


IMHO it's not only the weight but the height, there's a big difference
between pulling the yoke back when you are 20 inches away and 10 inches
away. I know.



I think I am following your thought, but I'm not sure.

Are you saying your height (or lack of it ;-) puts you so close to the yoke
(10 inches) that the closeness makes it much more difficult to pull hard on
the yoke?

I'm assuming that the pedals on the Navion are not adjustable, and that is
what puts you so close to the yoke?

You hit the nail on the head. It's not bad in the Navion, but a 182 is a
****er for me. It's one reason we have a Navion, but yes, I still sit
rather close.

Margy
  #20  
Old October 5th 07, 08:14 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.owning,rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
Greg Esres[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 31
Default Going for my Multiengine rating

The Visitor wrote:

To flare nice with full flaps invites a tail stall.

Not likely. You will lose elevator authority, but the AOA gets
smaller as the tail moves down.

why there is the abundance of nose gear collapses in the type.

Actually, there is an AD out on the Seneca nose gear. The collapses
are generally due to misrigging of the airplane. Friend of mine has a
nosewheel collapse after a full stall, nose high landing.


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Going for my Multiengine rating Kobra Piloting 34 October 10th 07 02:23 PM
Question for Bob Gardner - Multiengine bank angle kevmor Piloting 5 May 14th 07 08:40 PM
Multiengine Rating [email protected] Piloting 79 January 25th 07 07:58 PM
Multi Engine & Time Building? Multiengine.net NW_PILOT Piloting 15 October 15th 05 12:05 AM
rotorcraft commercial rating or better rating advice Rick Cook Rotorcraft 0 October 13th 03 04:49 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.