Slow Flight

There is little doubt in my mind that the ability to do slow flight at
the very edge of stall speed will do more to prevent accidents than
1000 hours of cruise speed flight. Is there anyone here who is
proficient that lands their aircraft more than 10kts above stall
speed?
I teach all my students to slow fly with the entire range of
configurations for the particular aircraft they are flying. Gear up/
down, flaps up/down/in-between. I want them to be comfortable flying
at the very edge of the stall speeds and spend a lot of time
maneuvering right on the edge of a stall "nibble". It does more for
pilot confidence and ability than anything else I can think of. They
learn proper control useage and how their particular aircraft responds
while in the low speed areas. Playing with different angles of bank
while at low speeds and flying with a modicum of accuracy does a lot
for proper control use.
If you think about it, how many accidents occur in the low speed
spectrum? Either from a stall, or from a high sink rate on approach,
or poor control use during an emergency or off airport landing, or
something similar?
In my opinion, the pilot who is comfortable throughout the entire
speed range of their aircraft is a properly trained pilot and one who
will not get into an inadvertant stall, or spin.
What are your thoughts?

On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 11:03:45 -0700, Ol Shy & Bashful
wrote:

There is little doubt in my mind that the ability to do slow flight at
the very edge of stall speed will do more to prevent accidents than
1000 hours of cruise speed flight.

What are your thoughts?

I'm a member of your choir. G

"Ol" == Ol Shy & Bashful writes:

Ol There is little doubt in my mind that the ability to do slow
Ol flight at the very edge of stall speed will do more to prevent
Ol accidents than 1000 hours of cruise speed flight.
.. . .
Ol What are your thoughts?

Can't agree. The single best thing I did with an airplane to improve
my confidence and safety was fly a cross-country to Oshkosh from
California with a more experienced friend, each in our own airplane.

But others will agree with you. The point is that there are several
areas of aviation and flight that are important, and different people
will have different needs in those areas. Your students are probably
proficient in slow flight, that's good. How well would they do with a
long cross country and handling weather issues?

There are only so many hours of training to give, and the reality is
that a fresh pilot just receiving their PP-ASEL doesn't know
much. Perhaps the best thing an instructor can do is see that their
students understand their ignorance but also understand how they can
use their new license to improve.

--
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with
potatoes.
Douglas Adams

Ol Shy & Bashful wrote:
In my opinion, the pilot who is comfortable throughout the entire
speed range of their aircraft is a properly trained pilot and one who
will not get into an inadvertant stall, or spin.
What are your thoughts?

I think what you said makes complete sense.
But I always wonder how people define "comfortable"? I was trained the
way you described and have repeated the drill more regularly than some.
I can do it if asked or necessary, I understand it, and I know how my
airplane acts. But I don't *like* flying at that edge of the envelope.
Does that mean I'm "uncomfortable"?

On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 12:49:11 -0700, Bob Fry
wrote:

Can't agree. The single best thing I did with an airplane to improve
my confidence and safety was fly a cross-country to Oshkosh from
California with a more experienced friend, each in our own airplane.

What about all those who get the same number of hours you flew on that
trip within 50 miles of home?

"Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote in message
ups.com...
There is little doubt in my mind that the ability to do slow flight at
the very edge of stall speed will do more to prevent accidents than
1000 hours of cruise speed flight. Is there anyone here who is
proficient that lands their aircraft more than 10kts above stall
speed?
I teach all my students to slow fly with the entire range of
configurations for the particular aircraft they are flying. Gear up/
down, flaps up/down/in-between. I want them to be comfortable flying
at the very edge of the stall speeds and spend a lot of time
maneuvering right on the edge of a stall "nibble". It does more for
pilot confidence and ability than anything else I can think of. They
learn proper control useage and how their particular aircraft responds
while in the low speed areas. Playing with different angles of bank
while at low speeds and flying with a modicum of accuracy does a lot
for proper control use.
If you think about it, how many accidents occur in the low speed
spectrum? Either from a stall, or from a high sink rate on approach,
or poor control use during an emergency or off airport landing, or
something similar?
In my opinion, the pilot who is comfortable throughout the entire
speed range of their aircraft is a properly trained pilot and one who
will not get into an inadvertant stall, or spin.
What are your thoughts?


You sound just like my old instructor in FW aviation, back in Nov 1959!!!
Can't agree more. You are right on the money. You know, I think I spent more
time flying slow flight than I did regular flight with him. :-))))) Great
guy, I have nothing but respect for him.

Paul

"Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote in message
ups.com...
There is little doubt in my mind that the ability to do slow flight at
the very edge of stall speed will do more to prevent accidents than
1000 hours of cruise speed flight. Is there anyone here who is
proficient that lands their aircraft more than 10kts above stall
speed?
...
If you think about it, how many accidents occur in the low speed
spectrum? Either from a stall, or from a high sink rate on approach,
or poor control use during an emergency or off airport landing, or
something similar?

I am having a bit of trouble "connecting the dots" between the two above
paragraphs. Glider pilots spend a lot of time at the nibbling edge of a stall,
especially circling at high bank angles right at the edge of a stall. I don't
think any of my students ever left being uncomfortable in slow flight. That
said, I don't want any of my students to be "comfortable" in the pattern (except
for very short final) whilst anywhere near a stall.

In my opinion, the pilot who is comfortable throughout the entire
speed range of their aircraft is a properly trained pilot and one who
will not get into an inadvertant stall, or spin.
What are your thoughts?

I think that there is a time and a place for everything, and I there are
times when I would want my students to feel distinctly uncomfortable if they
were to find themselves slow.

Vaughn

Slow flight is a skill. Crosswind landing is a skill. Exposure to long
trips and making difficult decisions under varying weather conditions
is experience. The right combination of skill and experience is what
makes a pilot "mature" and safe.



On Sep 8, 3:49 pm, Bob Fry wrote:
"Ol" == Ol Shy & Bashful writes:

Ol There is little doubt in my mind that the ability to do slow
Ol flight at the very edge of stall speed will do more to prevent
Ol accidents than 1000 hours of cruise speed flight.
. . .
Ol What are your thoughts?

Can't agree. The single best thing I did with an airplane to improve
my confidence and safety was fly a cross-country to Oshkosh from
California with a more experienced friend, each in our own airplane.

But others will agree with you. The point is that there are several
areas of aviation and flight that are important, and different people
will have different needs in those areas. Your students are probably
proficient in slow flight, that's good. How well would they do with a
long cross country and handling weather issues?

There are only so many hours of training to give, and the reality is
that a fresh pilot just receiving their PP-ASEL doesn't know
much. Perhaps the best thing an instructor can do is see that their
students understand their ignorance but also understand how they can
use their new license to improve.

--
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with
potatoes.
Douglas Adams

Shirl wrote:
Ol Shy & Bashful wrote:
In my opinion, the pilot who is comfortable throughout the entire
speed range of their aircraft is a properly trained pilot and one who
will not get into an inadvertant stall, or spin.
What are your thoughts?

I think what you said makes complete sense.
But I always wonder how people define "comfortable"? I was trained the
way you described and have repeated the drill more regularly than some.
I can do it if asked or necessary, I understand it, and I know how my
airplane acts. But I don't *like* flying at that edge of the envelope.
Does that mean I'm "uncomfortable"?

No. You never really want to feel completely "comfortable" in the
airplane. You always want to be performing on that "edge" of awareness
when flying that keeps you ahead of the "comfortable" area and more into
the "alert" area. In other words, the correct mental attitude while
flying is one of being relaxed, but on guard and alert....just a bit on
edge as they say......to put it bluntly...SHARP!
Just an aside; beware of the fact that you "don't like" flying near the
edge of the envelope. The normal reaction should be more associated with
an "increased awareness and alertness" when flying in this area. It's ok
for the comfort level to go down as you enter this area, but it
shouldn't go so far down that you actually dislike flying on the left side.
I'd work on that and possibly change from a dislike to feeling just a
bit sharper in this area.

--
Dudley Henriques

On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 11:03:45 -0700, Ol Shy & Bashful
wrote:

There is little doubt in my mind that the ability to do slow flight at
the very edge of stall speed will do more to prevent accidents than
1000 hours of cruise speed flight. Is there anyone here who is
proficient that lands their aircraft more than 10kts above stall
speed?

This brings up a question in my mind.
When you say slow flight at the edge of a stall I think of Minimum
Controllable Air Speed or MCA. Slow flight, to me, is considerably
more comfortable and a bit above the stall warning horn. I was taught
steep turns with the horn on all the way around. Of course I was
taught accelerated stalls out of steep turns as well :-))

I teach all my students to slow fly with the entire range of
configurations for the particular aircraft they are flying. Gear up/
down, flaps up/down/in-between. I want them to be comfortable flying
at the very edge of the stall speeds and spend a lot of time
maneuvering right on the edge of a stall "nibble". It does more for

I think that definition of slow flight and MCA depends on the
instructor(s) as around here a lot of them teach slow flight, whereas
as few still teach MCA.

pilot confidence and ability than anything else I can think of. They
learn proper control useage and how their particular aircraft responds
while in the low speed areas. Playing with different angles of bank
while at low speeds and flying with a modicum of accuracy does a lot
for proper control use.
If you think about it, how many accidents occur in the low speed
spectrum? Either from a stall, or from a high sink rate on approach,
or poor control use during an emergency or off airport landing, or
something similar?
In my opinion, the pilot who is comfortable throughout the entire
speed range of their aircraft is a properly trained pilot and one who
will not get into an inadvertant stall, or spin.
What are your thoughts?

Amen!

A couple of thoughts or observations: I see a lot of pilots with quite
a few hours who still fly mechanically. IOW they never go outside the
original basics. These are the pilots who never learn to be flexible.
They are the ones you don't want to get behind (or have behind yo) in
the pattern at Oshkosh where the tower tells you what to do and when.
They are the ones who have a problem getting down when the wind
changes on final. If the wind changes and they find themselves high
on final it never occurs to them a slip would be appropriate to still
put them on the desired spot, or to apply just enough power to put
them on that spot instead of applying lots of power when they see they
are going to come up short.

With an engine failure they have to recognize what has happened and
think of each step. They rely on the stall warning horn and or light,
rather than feel in the controls. When I was in primary training the
flight envelop was by feel. Yes, we used the gages to get in the
neighborhood, but beyond that is was learning to feel what the plane
was doing. OTOH when I was in primary training a lot of things were
done differently than they are now.

As to inadvertent stalls, not all can be avoided no mater how well the
pilot is trained. I've had three inadvertent stalls. One was in level
flight at 5500. Two were on final due to wind shear that was well
beyond what had been forecast and I was carrying extra speed. Nothing
was bent in any of the events, nor did I need to change my shorts (or
count seat cushions).

And we all have to realize that on rare occasion mechanical parts fail
and nature does conspire to put us in a heap of hurt. In those cases
we have to use our training to minimize the damage if possible.

Roger (K8RI)