Gasohol

"David Lesher" wrote in message
...


Given the issue with alcohol, and the fact it is injected at the
last stage - truck loading -- why aren't the STA owners such as EAA
running campaigns to set up procedures for FBO's to procure untainted
autogas?

I can see the average truck loading terminal saying "we can't do that"
until they get a memo saying that they can...



--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

I really doubt that the terminal operators are so ignorant as to make that a
problem.

OTOH, there are some real problems for the FBO to overcome. One FBO owner,
who I know, stopped selling gasolene several years ago--saying that he
sometimes suspected that he lost more to evaporation than he pumped. That
was certainly an exageration, but the point was well made that the sales did
not justify the overhead--so now he only pumps Jet A, and gasolen powered
aircraft must taxi elsewhere on the field for their fuel. For many, if not
most, E-zero mogas would be an additional grade of fuel in a low volume
market--and one which would require additional infrastructure, and also
licensing, maintenance, and inspection of same.

Obviously, many also operate rental aircraft which they would prefer to run
on the most appropriate fuel. However, untill we are willing to guarantee
them a reasonable volume of sales, I don't see how they can do it. (They to
never bet on another man's game, but I will hazard a guess that an FBO needs
to use a full devivery every other month to keep the product available--and
at least twice that much to offer it at a competitive price. Any
requirement for above ground storage may also increase the required volume.)

Just my $0.02
Peter

In rec.aviation.owning Morgans wrote:

snip

I await everyone's opinions. I agree with the premise that I think Dan has;
that it should be possible, and practical to develop a gasohol safe
airplane. "Some will no doubt shout, you will crash and burn!"

This could be an interesting discussion.

Since Embraer has an alcohol fueled aircraft in production, it is
obviously possible.

http://www.defesanet.com.br/embraer/ipanema1000th.htm

The question then becomes what would it take to retrofit an existing
aircraft?


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

"Dan Youngquist" wrote in message
hell.org...
On Tue, 5 Jun 2007, Morgans wrote:

I did think I understood that the problem with gasohol for airplanes was incompatibility with some rubber parts of
the fuel system.

That's what I've always heard too, but I've never been able to get anyone to back it up with info about SPECIFIC parts
that are in danger. In particular, I'd really like to know what SPECIFIC parts I have to change in my IO-360-A1A's
fuel system so I don't have to worry about alcohol. (It's in an experimental, so legality isn't an issue.) At the
same time, I see all manner of decades-old cars & trucks running for many years on gas that's part alcohol, with all
original fuel system parts, with no ill effects whatsoever. So I'm pretty close to writing off the whole ethanol fuel
system damage thing as an old wives' tale, but not yet willing to bet the farm on it.

-Dan

Fuel tank sealer (aka Proseal), fuel hoses, tank floats, carb floats, etc.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message ups.com...
Not looking for water, we're looking for alcohol...

Actually many of us are curious about each, and some of use would be
interested to know both.

That is the supposed beauty of Alka Seltzer, is that it fizzes on both
water *and* alcohol...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"


Your alka seltzer fizzes in water. It all by itself does not detect alcohol...

"Blueskies"
Fuel tank sealer (aka Proseal), fuel hoses, tank floats, carb floats, etc.


Miscellaneous gaskets


Montblack

Well, we've been down this road before, back when the Alky test first
came on the scene. Some chemist here ended up concluding that the
test was valid, but I'm always open to hearing other thoughts on the
matter.

If the danged test DIDN'T work, that could ruin my whole day...

Just to satisfy my curiosity, I did the Alka Seltzer test on a sample
of Regular Unleaded (87 Octane) - the stuff I put in my lawn mowers.
No fizz. I buy it at
the pumps of a local supermarket chain in North Carolina. Dunno where
the State stands on Gasohol, but I don't see any Alcohol Notification
Stickers there (the pumps at some other local gas stations have
stickers stating that the gas MAY contain alcohol)

David Johnson

"Dave" wrote

Just to satisfy my curiosity, I did the Alka Seltzer test on a sample
of Regular Unleaded (87 Octane) - the stuff I put in my lawn mowers.
No fizz. I buy it at
the pumps of a local supermarket chain in North Carolina. Dunno where
the State stands on Gasohol, but I don't see any Alcohol Notification
Stickers there (the pumps at some other local gas stations have
stickers stating that the gas MAY contain alcohol)

Do you live in a county that has required emissions control testing for
cars? They have the red and white stripe inspection stickers.

I ask, because it is in these counties that are required to add an
oxygenator to the gas in the summer months. That is most likely alcohol.

I don't know when the addition to the fuel begins or ends. I would have to
say right about.......NOW ! ! !

When did you purchase said tested gas?
--
Jim in NC

"Peter Dohm" writes:


Given the issue with alcohol, and the fact it is injected at the
last stage - truck loading -- why aren't the STA owners such as EAA
running campaigns to set up procedures for FBO's to procure untainted
autogas?

I really doubt that the terminal operators are so ignorant as to make that a
problem.

Ha!


OTOH, there are some real problems for the FBO to overcome. One FBO owner,
who I know, stopped selling gasolene several years ago--saying that he
sometimes suspected that he lost more to evaporation than he pumped.


That's a "selling autogas" problem;
vice "finding un-Ethenol'ed autogas to sell" one.

Agreed the first may be an issue..

BUT if you have a gaggle of STA'ed aircraft owners based there and
you but not evry EatHerAndGetGas sells what they want and need....




--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

Your alka seltzer fizzes in water. It all by itself does not detect alcohol...

And now for the rest of the story....

Step 1....
Got a clean urine sample cup - meaning unused...
Using a sterile syringe I added 1.5cc of denatured alcohol (S-L-X
brand) from a previously opened can, which will have an unknown % of
absorbed water vapor, to the sample cup...
Dropped in a small chunk of Alka Seltzer Original...
Faint fizzing noted - you will have to be gimlet eyed to see it - but
it does fizz... So, we can assume that "pure" alcohol ( a weak
organic acid that always contains absorbed water) will 'fizz' Alka-
Seltzer (contains bicarb of soda) if a bit faintly...

Step 2....
Added 0.4 cc of warm weak tea ( it was handy) in 0.1cc increments...
Fizzing rate essentially doubled, or a bit more, by the time I reached
the 0.4 cc value... Easy to see... This is 26% imbibed water in the
alcohol... Dunno what effect the pH of the tea had - I assume that
word that it might enhance the fizzing from the bicarb...

**** the intellectual reason for the tea besides it being in my hand
is that water condensed on a metallic surface will be weakly
acidic****

Step 3...
Dumped the liquid from the cup and added a dash of tap water...
Fizzing about tripled the rate from Step 2...


Alka-Seltzer does not fizz explosively, like Arm&Hammer bicarbonate of
soda would because it is buffered with citric acid... you will need
to google on buffering and rate of reactions to understand some of
that

Unfortunately, for scientific rigor, I do not have any so called
gasoline handy to test with... I have one minute to start seeing
patients and I suspect they will not be impressed of I reek of the
nasty crap they sell for gas these days...

denny

On Jun 4, 1:33 pm, "RST Engineering" wrote:
The denizens of this ng have known and discussed this for some time now,
sir. WHere have you been?

Jim


Did I beat you up or something when we were kids?

denny