GP Gliders GP 14 Velo has finally FLOWN!!!

On Wednesday, 30 November 2016 20:26:18 UTC+1, Sean wrote:
You guys are worrying too much.

This is a tiny, extremely modern glider. The batteries will add AT MOST 50 lbs per wing. Probably more like 30 lb. per wing or 60 lb. total. And without batteries I'll bet these wings are AT LEAST 50 lb. lighter (EACH) than any current 15m wing.


From the information I've seen, its 4.7 kWh batteries weigh 27 kg total (i.e. 13.5 kg per wing). And each wing weighs 31 kg empty. So around 45 kg with batteries, which is still lighter than any 15 m wing I've heard about.


The prototype had a picure (99%) sure, without batteries, and the guy was carrying the wing around under his arm like a large RC glider. Maybe I am wrong on this. Anyone?

http://www.gpgliders.com/sites/defau...927_custom.jpg

On Wednesday, 30 November 2016 20:11:22 UTC+2, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Wednesday, November 30, 2016 at 3:15:15 AM UTC-5, krasw wrote:
13.5m gliders are stuck with club class performance (plus some, maybe) because of the massive span penalty.

So in your mind, the range extension of the sustainer does not compensate for the lower glide ratio?? Could the 13.5m could do the same task in the same time on the same day as a 15m pure glider?

The 13.5m might even go farther/faster than the 15m pure glider because the pilot could be smart and use the engine selectively.

Assuming aerotow, do you think that many pilots will land at the end of the day with fully charged batteries? If I had one I think I would land with a 50% charge or less. What do the people that already have FES do on a typical day?

We are talking about self-launching glider with retractable engine. I think the flight profile of GP is self-launch (or aerotow in competitions), pure gliding flight and occasional retrieve. I don't see pure gliding part affected by engine in any positive way.

I think that people are reluctant to pay huge amount of money for less performance than previous generation of gliders. Only way to do this is offer huge benefits in other areas. 13.5m gliders have edge in rigging/ground handling and electric self launching. It will be interesting to see if this is enough to compensate for 10-20% performance disadvantage compared to used std./15m/18m class glider (even with engine) you can easily get with 100+k eur needed for new 13.5m self launcher.

If we discuss about the weight of GP15, they really have to pull a miracle. Ventus 2a or ASW27 weigh 220-260 kg without engine. LAK stated that they can build new version of LAK-19 with carbon fuselage under 200 kg. That is 15m glider without engine or batteries. GP's small wing, lighter structure and lower MTOW could save something, but then you add engine and batteries (40 kg at least, probably more). They state that empty weight is 185 kg. That would leave 145 kg of structure (minus rocket parachute). VNE is in same page as with Ventus and ASW. Have they discovered some new space material that saves 100 kg of carbon and kevlar?

We are talking about self-launching glider with retractable engine. I think the flight profile of GP is self-launch (or aerotow in competitions), pure gliding flight and occasional retrieve. I don't see pure gliding part affected by engine in any positive way.

I think that people are reluctant to pay huge amount of money for less performance than previous generation of gliders. Only way to do this is offer huge benefits in other areas. 13.5m gliders have edge in rigging/ground handling and electric self launching. It will be interesting to see if this is enough to compensate for 10-20% performance disadvantage compared to used std./15m/18m class glider (even with engine) you can easily get with 100+k eur needed for new 13.5m self launcher.

If we discuss about the weight of GP15, they really have to pull a miracle. Ventus 2a or ASW27 weigh 220-260 kg without engine. LAK stated that they can build new version of LAK-19 with carbon fuselage under 200 kg. That is 15m glider without engine or batteries. GP's small wing, lighter structure and lower MTOW could save something, but then you add engine and batteries (40 kg at least, probably more). They state that empty weight is 185 kg. That would leave 145 kg of structure (minus rocket parachute). VNE is in same page as with Ventus and ASW. Have they discovered some new space material that saves 100 kg of carbon and kevlar?

How long has the Ali-Sport Silent Electro been available? not long and there are 10 in the US. http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinqu...xt=&Pa geNo=1

Time has gotten more precious and people want the perfect day mid week flight if they can afford it. And obviously there are people that can afford it. Just wait until some of the 13.5m electors come on the market used. I'm willing to bet they will sell before a used ASW27/29. Performance is obviously not the only thing people are looking at. Light self rigging and independent self launching is the huge benefit. Not to mention no more landing out and BRS.

Simply using a modern production technique (infusion or prepregs) can cut structural airframe weight by an easy 20%.
Going for a sparless wing (like the Diana) saves another easy 10-20 kg.
So no, it's not that hard to make such a light airframe if we step away from 1980's technology and what was certified then..

Lower weight is not impossible. Look at the following pictu http://esoaring.com/sparrowonehand.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windwa...ce_SparrowHawk shows the full spec. Granted: it is only 11 mtr but 13.5 mtr could come in rather lightweight as well.
And with the electric power this for me is a very good package. I, as a non competition pilot, would be more than happy with this performance package. Easy to rig and decent performance. I believe it to be one of the better aims in creating a new future for our sport, out of the way of heavier and more expensive planes. The only thing I am struggling with is the certification as ultralight against a formal certification. But we have seen the long time it took Jonker to get a European license. New entries to the constructor market, at least in Europe, looks to take lots of time and probably money. A short-cut is a possible way out.

Finally: The package has a higher weight allowance than the 13.5 mtr FAI allowance is, "clipping its wings" even before the glider gets airborn. I am still unsure on how the rules will be explained in Hungary. Personally I have not made up my mind yet on the GPglider but it is high on my short list.

On a side note: I would be curious though is a 15 mtr ultralight sets a record with a weight higher than allowed as a ultralight (which has European weight restrictions in itself) but perfectly OK in a normal 15 mtr class. It feels really messy as an outsider......

lauantai 3. joulukuuta 2016 22.10.26 UTC+2 marco kirjoitti:

The only thing I am struggling with is the certification as ultralight against a formal certification. But we have seen the long time it took Jonker to get a European license. New entries to the constructor market, at least in Europe, looks to take lots of time and probably money. A short-cut is a possible way out.


That is a good point. GP14SE proto seems to be registered as Slovakian microlight. AFAIK there is currently no pan-european ultra/microlight, or ultra/microlight-glider category (other than CS-LSA, that regulative joke of EASA). These aircraft are outside the scope of EASA, and national authorities can impose whatever rules they see fit. Most of them have chosen different rules.

If GP15 will be certified as single seat ultralight, it would have max wing loading of under 40 kg/m2 in most countries (MTOW around 300 kg). That would pretty much prevent it flying 15 m competitions. Normal flying would be no problem of course, practically all ultralights in Europe fly overweight on daily basis, and that seems to bother no-one.

Tim McAllister
GP Gliders USA

Tim, what is the ballpark price for this glider?

On Friday, November 25, 2016 at 1:09:14 PM UTC+11, Tim wrote:
Good Evening All:

After a very long wait, the GP 14 Velo took to the air yesterday (November 24th) from Krosno, Poland by both aero-tow and electric self-launch. More details to come but check GP Gliders on FaceBook for pictures and video. First pilot reports are very good. We are finally flying!!!

Tim McAllister
GP Gliders USA

If they want a glider attractive to competition pilots, they might want to look at building a standard class version.

Well under 100k US for the early buyers, COMPLETE with electric self launch and trailer.

No that is not a typo.

The post early buyer discount price may be slighly higher today but this concept is a game changer. Half the price of the big self launchers. No gasoline, far less complexity in "motor" operation.

But no strong "class" yet. Will that come? We shall see.

A new 15 meter version (same concept) is right on the GP14s heels.

I think think these early buyers are going to have much fun toying with all of us pure gliders! Good for them!

On Sunday, December 4, 2016 at 9:47:08 PM UTC-6, Soartech wrote:
Tim McAllister
GP Gliders USA

Tim, what is the ballpark price for this glider?

List price for the gliders a
GP 14 E/SE 82,900 EUR
GP 15 E/SE 93,900 EUR

GP Trailer for GP 14 is 11,900 EUR and for the GP 15 14,900

Customer chosen options generally add up to @6,000 +/- EUR.

Regular Purchase Terms now apply (minimum 25% order Initial Down Payment), but discounts for deposits between 50% and 100% of the order total garner discounts between 5% and 12% off of the standard glider list price (discount not applicable to options or trailer).

We are taking delivery positions for Autumn of 2018 with orders to date of 8 GP 14's, 6 GP 15's and 1 GP 11 on deferred order.

For more information please contact me at www.gpglidersusa.com

Best,
Tim McAllister
GP Gliders USA