Your opinions, please!

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 19:47:59 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

: Our new rec.aviation "Rogue's Gallery" of pictures.
:
:Since our new website is obviously becoming more popular with you folks
:every day, I need some advice on how to proceed:
:
:1. Should I include "anonymous" posters? I have received pictures from
:several folks who do not wish to use their real names, have their "N"
:numbers visible, or have their home bases publicized. To me this seems
:bizarre, since the whole point of "showing off" your plane is to "show
ff" -- and how can you do *that* anonymously? Still, I've posted a
:couple of them, but I'm not sure of how to proceed. It's YOUR page -- what
:do you folks think?

Why not? Anonymous pictures wouldn't have as much use as
non-anonymous (nominous?) ones do, but it doesn't cost anything to
post them. If they're asking *you* to blurr out their N numbers,
that's different and you should turn them down.
:
:2. The page is slowing waaaay down. I really like the format of the page,
:but as it grows it's getting really slow to open. How's it running for you?
:Too slow? Okay, yet? How slow is too slow?

Runs OK for me on a cable modem. I like the thumbnails.
:
:3. Should I include email addresses? I've not included them, thus far --
:but I thought it might be valuable to have an email "directory" of
articipants?

If you do, make them spambot resistant, like richard atsign riley
period net.

We all know the problem with our pilot license numbers. The
name and address of a pilot, his SS number and the exact N-number,
serial number, and address of his airplane, a very valuable tangible
asset, might make easy picking for an identity thief. Am I being
overly cautious, yes.

You know, I hear this ALL THE TIME -- yet, I've never met a single person
who has actually suffered from "identity theft".

As you all know, I use my real name, my real address, my real email address
(well, mostly), and the real name of my business -- thus far, with minimal
hassle. Am I being stupid? Dunno -- but I simply can't bring myself to hide
behind a phony name.

I *really* enjoy the new Visa commercials, with the guy's voice-over on the
little old lady -- they're hilarious and really get the point across about
the risks of identity theft. However, they *are* trying to sell a product,
and (as a result) the cynic in me rises to the fore. I just have to wonder
if this whole "identity theft" thing isn't a product of Madison Avenue, once
again trying to fan the flames of our own paranoia, in an effort to sell us
something?

Does anyone know a real person who has suffered this fate?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On 12/12/03 11:47 AM, in article "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

Our new rec.aviation "Rogue's Gallery" of pictures.

Since our new website is obviously becoming more popular with you folks
every day, I need some advice on how to proceed:

OK..thanks for asking.


1. Should I include "anonymous" posters? I have received pictures from
several folks who do not wish to use their real names, have their "N"
numbers visible, or have their home bases publicized. To me this seems
bizarre, since the whole point of "showing off" your plane is to "show
off" -- and how can you do *that* anonymously? Still, I've posted a
couple of them, but I'm not sure of how to proceed. It's YOUR page -- what
do you folks think?

I vote no. If they don't want people knowing who, where, and what they are,
why are they sending you photos? Do they really own/fly the plane?


2. The page is slowing waaaay down. I really like the format of the page,
but as it grows it's getting really slow to open. How's it running for you?
Too slow? Okay, yet? How slow is too slow?

OK for me now, but I have cable.


3. Should I include email addresses? I've not included them, thus far --
but I thought it might be valuable to have an email "directory" of
participants?

Normally, I'd repeat my answer to #1 but, with all of the e-mail
harvesting/spamming. I'd say only if people want you too and won't complain
if they get spammed as a result.


Thanks for your help!

You're very welcome. It's a great page!

Al
1964 Skyhawk 3082U
alcessnapilot at comcast.net

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:t9uCb.328993$Dw6.1107274@attbi_s02...
[...] I just have to wonder
if this whole "identity theft" thing isn't a product of Madison Avenue,
once
again trying to fan the flames of our own paranoia, in an effort to sell
us
something?

Does anyone know a real person who has suffered this fate?

Are you suggesting identity theft is not an issue at all? It certainly is a
very real crime, and it is happening more and more. It comes in a variety
of manifestations and, in answer to your question, I do personally know of a
real person (more than one, actually) who was a victim of identity theft.

Are you asking what the prevalence of identity theft is, and/or arguing that
the credit card companies are playing up the incidence? The answer to the
former is hard to quantify, since many different forms of fraud and other
crimes can be considered identity theft, and because there's no well-defined
reporting mechanism. One FTC-sponsored survey suggests that there may be as
many as 10 million Americans each year affected by identity theft, and that
as many as a third of those involved the use of their personal information
in the commission of a fraud:
http://www.ftc.gov/os/2003/09/synovatereport.pdf

I *do* think it's funny that you would suggest that the advertising
community would be playing *up* the threat. Credit card companies have been
notoriously reticent to release figures regarding consumer fraud, including
identity theft, out of a concern that people will start thinking that credit
cards are unreliable. The thought that identity theft is simply an
invention created to sell more product is laughable. Yes, a new business
arena has been discovered, and yes several companies have jumped on that
bandwagon. But they are no worse than the burglar alarm companies who use
scare tactics to frighten you into buying their products. The crime is
real.

Pete

Jay Honeck wrote:
Does anyone know a real person who has suffered this fate?

Yes. Over 10 years ago, I received a call from the Secret Service asking
if I would be willing to help prosecute someone who had multiple
credit cards in my name and that of many other people. I, of course,
cooperated.

As it happens, they had caught the guys before much had been purchased
on the credit card numbers, and while the physical cards were still in
their possession.

They (the bad guys) had obtained identifying information by picking the
utterly ineffective lock on postal clusterboxes at various apartment
complexes in Dallas. They were caught, the agent told me, due to an
unusual number of new telephone line installation requests that were
made to an apartment. The complex owner got suspicious, and called the
local cops. The local cops figured it was a numbers operation, and
called in the Feds. The FBI handed it to Treasury after observing an
unsually high volume of what appeared to be credit card statements going
to the same address. Phone record analysis gave them enough along with
every thing else gave them enough to get a search warrant, as I recall.
(Lots of calls from credit card companies calling for verification.
This was apparently necessary because they were asking for cards at an
address for which there was no other sustantiating information; they
claimed a new move. CC company called "employer" to verify. Each phone
represented a different fake employer, for whom they (the bad guys) had
a list of "employees." They gave the CC company the new address in
verification, and the card was issued.)

They had so much evidence that I never had to testify. They (the Secret
Service) also worked directly with the credit card companies to get the
whole mess cleaned up.

So, yes, I know someone. Me.

Ben Sego

Jay Honeck wrote:
I just have to wonder
if this whole "identity theft" thing isn't a product of Madison Avenue, once
again trying to fan the flames of our own paranoia, in an effort to sell us
something?

Does anyone know a real person who has suffered this fate?

Yes. Over 10 years ago, I received a call from the Secret Service asking
if I would be willing to help prosecute someone who had multiple
credit cards in my name and that of many other people. I, of course,
cooperated.

As it happens, they had caught the guys before much had been purchased
on the credit card numbers, and while the physical cards were still in
their possession.

They (the bad guys) had obtained identifying information by picking the
utterly ineffective lock on postal clusterboxes at various apartment
complexes in Dallas. They were caught, the agent told me, due to an
unusual number of new telephone line installation requests that were
made to an apartment. The complex owner got suspicious, and called the
local cops. The local cops figured it was a numbers operation, and
called in the Feds. The FBI handed it to Treasury after observing an
unsually high volume of what appeared to be credit card statements going
to the same address. Phone record analysis gave them enough along with
every thing else gave them enough to get a search warrant, as I recall.
(Lots of calls from credit card companies calling for verification.
This was apparently necessary because they were asking for cards at an
address for which there was no other sustantiating information; they
claimed a new move. CC company called "employer" to verify. Each phone
represented a different fake employer, for whom they (the bad guys) had
a list of "employees." They gave the CC company the new address in
verification, and the card was issued.)

They had so much evidence that I never had to testify. They (the Secret
Service) also worked directly with the credit card companies to get the
whole mess cleaned up.

So, yes, I know someone. Me.

Ben Sego

Jay Honeck wrote:

Does anyone know a real person who has suffered this fate?

Yes, and he's been trying to straighten it out for
at least two years now.

Dave 'easy credit' Hyde

Hi Jay

1. Should I include "anonymous" posters?

No. To me the main point of interest is that through these groups I know
the people posting. If they are anonymous, then what is the point?
No problem if they don't want their home base publicised though.


2. The page is slowing waaaay down. I really like the format of the page,
but as it grows it's getting really slow to open. How's it running for you?
Too slow? Okay, yet? How slow is too slow?

Runs great for me, although I do have high speed cable access.

3. Should I include email addresses?

Up to the individual. I don't mind, because the email address that I use
in the rec groups is a hotmail one, used especially for the rec groups.
I wouldn't use my primary address as I like to keep it spam free.



--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Almost Instrument
Cessna 172H C-GICE

I *do* think it's funny that you would suggest that the advertising
community would be playing *up* the threat. Credit card companies have
been
notoriously reticent to release figures regarding consumer fraud,
including
identity theft, out of a concern that people will start thinking that
credit
cards are unreliable.

This is a complete joke, Pete. I can tell you, as a retailer, that it is WE
who are left holding the bag when it comes to credit card fraud -- not the
consumer. In fact, the consumer is so "protected" as to be almost immune
from loss.

We have been stiffed twice in our first 15 months, to the tune of over
$1500, by people who ran their bill way up, went home, and claimed that
their cards were "stolen". We did everything PRECISELY as the credit card
companies told us to, but were stuck eating the loss anyway.

The only people who should be questioning the reliability of credit cards
are the retailers. Unfortunately, the cards are so ubiquitous that there is
no way we could live with out them -- and the credit card companies smugly
know it.

Thus, there is NO effective pressure on them to squash fraud. :-(
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:0fvCb.330362$Dw6.1109340@attbi_s02...
This is a complete joke, Pete. I can tell you, as a retailer, that it is
WE
who are left holding the bag when it comes to credit card fraud -- not the
consumer. In fact, the consumer is so "protected" as to be almost immune
from loss.

What is a complete joke?

You obviously have no clue what the simplest forms of identity theft can do
to a person's life, never mind the most extreme kinds. You think that
because you are a retailer, that you see the extent of the result of
identity theft. But you obviously don't. The cost of goods obtained
through identity theft is the least of anyone's problems (except perhaps
yours). Much more significant are the years a person has to invest
recovering from the crime.

Identity theft isn't just someone using someone else's credit card. Yes,
that is ONE form of it. But the greater issue are criminals who create
entire fictional versions of real-life people, and then who proceed to
commit all manner of fraud under the name of those real-life people. The
credit card companies are terrible at providing assistance to victims with
respect to clearing up the bad credit records created as a result, and in
some cases are counter-productive.

We have been stiffed twice in our first 15 months, to the tune of over
$1500, by people who ran their bill way up, went home, and claimed that
their cards were "stolen". We did everything PRECISELY as the credit card
companies told us to, but were stuck eating the loss anyway.

So? That somehow proves that identity theft is not a problem?

The only people who should be questioning the reliability of credit cards
are the retailers. Unfortunately, the cards are so ubiquitous that there
is
no way we could live with out them -- and the credit card companies smugly
know it.

Again, credit cards are simply one facet of the overall problem of identity
theft.

Thus, there is NO effective pressure on them to squash fraud. :-(

Maybe some of you retailers (who certainly have way more collective clout
than the individual consumer does) should get off your butts and get the FTC
to do something about the credit card monopolies that allow the credit
companies to force retailers to take the brunt of the direct cost of credit
card fraud.

In any case, that particular situation has little to do with the overall
threat of identity theft. I still don't understand your apparent
unwillingness to believe that it's a genuine problem.

Pete