IR without actual IMC

Anyone IR without having actually flown in IMC? My checkride is around the
corner and I've no actual IFR yet. I'm itching to experience it but the
damned weather isn't co-operating (seemed the same way with the PPL!).


Iain

"Iain Wilson" writes:

Anyone IR without having actually flown in IMC? My checkride is
around the corner and I've no actual IFR yet. I'm itching to
experience it but the damned weather isn't co-operating (seemed the
same way with the PPL!).

Most of my actual came near the end of my training; until then, we
were just outside that nasty weather sitting over the U.S. east coast
in the Spring, so we just couldn't find any IMC at a reasonable
altitude to practice in. Even then, I was getting actual only in
cloud at altitude (i.e. for holds and enroute). We didn't manage to
find enough actual for approach to near minima until (I think) my
second-last lesson. I ended up doing my flight test a couple of days
later at 8:00 am with 400 ft ceilings, and it went great (it was
wonderful not to have to wear the foggles; the missed approach on the
NDB 07 was for real, and and the final ILS approach was the only way
we could get back home).

For now, you should be able to arrange some holds and enroute up in
the clouds, even if the ceiling is too high for approaches in IMC.


All the best,


David

--
David Megginson, , http://www.megginson.com/

"Iain Wilson" wrote in message
arthlink.net...
Anyone IR without having actually flown in IMC? My checkride is around the
corner and I've no actual IFR yet. I'm itching to experience it but the
damned weather isn't co-operating (seemed the same way with the PPL!).

I don't think it matters much whether your checkride occurs before or after
you're introduced to actual IMC. But if the checkride happens first, I'd
strongly advise against flying in clouds until you've had a chance to try it
with a CFII. Staying upright can be surprisingly more difficult when you
don't have the peripheral-vision cues that hoods/foggles usually fail to
suppress.

--Gary

Iain

It would be ideal to find some actual IMC and fly in it prior to the
checkride. That's not always possible, especially in the southwest, but it
would be a good idea. It might be a littel disconcerting to you to enter your
first cloud during your flight test.

A friend of mine who's a pilot examiner gets upset when instrument applicants
cancel their checkrides due to flyable IMC. He grumbles that they must not be
ready to fly in the clouds if they can't do it without foggles.

-Ryan
CFII-A/MEI/CFI-H

Iain Wilson wrote:

Anyone IR without having actually flown in IMC? My checkride is around the
corner and I've no actual IFR yet. I'm itching to experience it but the
damned weather isn't co-operating (seemed the same way with the PPL!).

Iain

Michael ) wrote:

IMC that is sufficiently benign for the average instrument trainer is
not common in much of the US. For example, where I'm based IMC
usually means embedded T-storms;

Come to central NY. Typically there is a low overcast over our region
thanks to Lake Ontario.

However, I do have to admit that this summer we have had more than our
share of embedded t-storms.

Then, of course, there is the issue of icing from October to April...

Well, OK, in May and September it is good. :-)

--
Peter












----== Posted via Usenet.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.Usenet.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

Peter R. writes:

Come to central NY. Typically there is a low overcast over our region
thanks to Lake Ontario.

However, I do have to admit that this summer we have had more than our
share of embedded t-storms.

I'd expect that you'd have the low overcast typically in the morning,
and the embedded CB and TCU in the afternoon.


All the best,


David

--
David Megginson, , http://www.megginson.com/

There are lots of helicopter CFIIs who have never seen the inside of a cloud.
Not their fault - there's no reasonable way for most of them to fly a rotorcraft
into IMC without spending a fortune, since most (all?) piston trainers are not
IFR-certified.

-Ryan
CFII-A/MEI/CFI-H


I once read an article written by a CFI-I who claims to have NEVER flown in
actual IMC. Is that scary?

On 1 Aug 2003 10:02:44 -0700, (Michael) wrote:

IMC that is sufficiently benign for the average instrument trainer is
not common in much of the US. For example, where I'm based IMC
usually means embedded T-storms; unless your trainer has RADAR and/or
Stormscope, that grounds you.

That really does depend where. In the Rockies, IMC usually means
cumulonimbus, cumulo-granite, severe icing, heavy turbulence.

On the other hand, during my instrument training in New England I
accumulated 6 hours of actual, some of it low enough to log "real"
missed approaches (including one off an ILS).

Mark Kolber
APA/Denver, Colorado
www.midlifeflight.com
======================
email? Remove ".no.spam"

In article link.net,
Iain Wilson wrote:
Anyone IR without having actually flown in IMC?

I guess I can't do that, since I got 0.1 actual during my PPL.
In fact, that dual XC made it crystal clear how useful an IR could
be even without every flying "hard" IFR. I flew the Farmington 3
departure from HIO and we broke out at about 3000' and the rest of
the trip was VFR (clouds burned off HIO by our return).

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/

On 1 Aug 2003 10:02:44 -0700, (Michael) wrote:

"Iain Wilson" wrote
Anyone IR without having actually flown in IMC? My checkride is around the
corner and I've no actual IFR yet. I'm itching to experience it but the
damned weather isn't co-operating (seemed the same way with the PPL!).

When I took my checkride, I had no dual in IMC. This is not a rare
condition. There are even quite a few CFII's out there who have never
flown in IMC. The problem is lack of opportunity.

IMC that is sufficiently benign for the average instrument trainer is

When I took the flight test I had enough time in actual that my first
flights were down to minimums. I was far more proficient then than I
am now.

As far as benign...my instructor only picked stuff where he wasn't
worried about structural failure, or it sure seemed that way. I sure
didn't think the stuff was benign.

I had over 12 hours of actual and probably 15 to 20 approaches right
down o minimums and below, on NDBs, VORs, and ILSs prior to taking the
test. He was real good at getting me out to practice approaches when
the ceilings were just barely high enough to do the VOR - A to get
back into 3BS. A couple of times it went well below minimums after
we landed. There were times when I was concerned we'd have to go
back over to MBS for the ILS and have my wife come to pick us up.

Course I live in the center of the lower peninsula of Michigan where a
really clear day may be 10 miles visibility. We may get those "see
clear to the horizon" days 3 or 4 times a year on average. We get a
lot of marginal VFR down to a mile or two quite often.

There is a lot of vegetation with the accompanying haze.
If you look closely the majority of the state, including the prime
farm land is one big swamp. They just drained the swamp to create the
farm land.

not common in much of the US. For example, where I'm based IMC
usually means embedded T-storms; unless your trainer has RADAR and/or
Stormscope, that grounds you. Most rental IFR trainers don't.

You can fly in the soup around here for hours (at times) without
having to worry about thunderstorms. Sometimes you can end up in
torrential rain where the RADAR is one big red splotch, yet the ride
is as smooth as sitting in a big easy chair on a concrete floor.
OTOH, some times just the green echoes are about as rough as you ever
want to get.

About 3 or 4 years ago It was almost solid from here to Oshkosh. I
was solid from The lake Michigan shoreline to OSH. Then they ran me
way to the west for the VOR 09. Coming home we were skimming the
tops at 7,000 with about 40 miles of torrential ran before the VOR-A
into 3BS. Yet it was as smooth as silk.

The next week we weren't in the clouds as much, but it was like
driving down a road full of chuck holes. Pretty rough ride and only
about 40 miles of the whole trip (each way) was in the soup.


Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)
My best suggestion is to do as much of your training as possible on
overcast and/or moonless nights over sparsely populated areas; under
those conditions hood training is quite realistic and will prepare you
to maintain control of the airplane in IMC.

Michael