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STAR to nearby airport



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 8th 04, 12:34 PM
Viperdoc
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Default STAR to nearby airport

Recently while returning from a trip I was heading to my home base, which is
a class D airport. I was handed off to the local tracon, which has a class C
airport, and was issued a clearance to follow a star that led to a navaid
near my destination. However, the star was for the class C airport, not my
destination. The class D airport is well outside of the class C airspace but
inside the area covered by the tracon.

I happened to know the star was for the class C airport, and followed it
appropriately. However, in the Jepps it is listed under the class C, and not
my destination.

I have never encountered this before even in a busy radar environment- is
this a common controller technique for arrivals?

If I had been unfamiliar with the area and approaches, this could have
caused a few moments of frantic chart flipping. Besides, the star did not
list my destination airport as one of the transitions, although a nearby
navaid is the IAP for several approaches.

Since my last clearance was the star into the class c airport, if I had gone
nordo, would I have been expected to fly to the class C airport listed in
the star and do an approach , or should I do an approach to my destination,
even if not listed in the star?


  #2  
Old May 8th 04, 02:07 PM
Dan Luke
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Default


"Viperdoc" wrote:
[snip]
I have never encountered this before even in a busy radar
environment- is this a common controller technique for arrivals?


Well, it's common at least in the Houston terminal area.

Besides, the star did not list my destination airport as one of
the transitions, although a nearby navaid is the IAP for several
approaches.


When I used to land at EYQ in Houston, I'd get the Trinity 1 arrival
every time, even though EYQ is not depicted on the STAR plate.


Since my last clearance was the star into the class c airport, if I

had gone
nordo, would I have been expected to fly to the class C airport listed

in
the star and do an approach , or should I do an approach to my

destination,
even if not listed in the star?


If you were cleared to the destination airport via the STAR, you should
fly the STAR, shoot an approach (if in IMC) and land. Don't do this if
you're a hundred miles out, though. The consensus of controllers and
instructors I have talked to is that a NORDO IFR aircraft is a major
pain in the airspace: ATC wants you to land as expeditiously as
possible.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM


  #3  
Old May 8th 04, 02:31 PM
Steven P. McNicoll
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Default


"Viperdoc" wrote in message
...

Recently while returning from a trip I was heading to my home
base, which is a class D airport. I was handed off to the local
tracon, which has a class C airport, and was issued a clearance
to follow a star that led to a navaid near my destination. However,
the star was for the class C airport, not my destination. The class
D airport is well outside of the class C airspace but inside the area
covered by the tracon.


What's your home base?


  #4  
Old May 10th 04, 02:20 PM
Dave Butler
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Default

Viperdoc wrote:
Recently while returning from a trip I was heading to my home base, which is
a class D airport. I was handed off to the local tracon, which has a class C
airport, and was issued a clearance to follow a star that led to a navaid
near my destination. However, the star was for the class C airport, not my
destination. The class D airport is well outside of the class C airspace but
inside the area covered by the tracon.

I happened to know the star was for the class C airport, and followed it
appropriately. However, in the Jepps it is listed under the class C, and not
my destination.

I have never encountered this before even in a busy radar environment- is
this a common controller technique for arrivals?


When I used to frequently fly to GAI in the Washington area, I would often get
the COATTx arrival for Dulles, then vectors to GAI, so I'd say it's fairly common.

Apparently there is some kind of list of "eligible airports" for a STAR. These
NOTAMs have been showing up lately for TTA, which is near Raleigh-Durham's class
C. ARGAL5 and BRADE5 are arrivals for RDU. DUAT plain-language translation:

Sanford NC (Sanford-Lee County Rgnl) [TTA]: January NOTAM #13 issued by UAR
ARGAL five arrival (ARGAL. ARGAL5) add TTA as an ELIGIBLE airport effective
from January 30th, 2004 at 11:24 AM EDT (0401301524)

Sanford NC (Sanford-Lee County Rgnl) [TTA]: January NOTAM #12 issued by UAR
BRADE five arrival (BRADE. BRADE5) add TTA as an ELIGIBLE airport effective
from January 30th, 2004 at 11:20 AM EDT (0401301520)


If I had been unfamiliar with the area and approaches, this could have
caused a few moments of frantic chart flipping. Besides, the star did not
list my destination airport as one of the transitions, although a nearby
navaid is the IAP for several approaches.

Since my last clearance was the star into the class c airport, if I had gone
nordo, would I have been expected to fly to the class C airport listed in
the star and do an approach , or should I do an approach to my destination,
even if not listed in the star?


What was your clearance limit?

Dave
Remove SHIRT to reply directly.

  #5  
Old May 10th 04, 05:24 PM
Everett M. Greene
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Default

Dave Butler writes:

Apparently there is some kind of list of "eligible airports" for a STAR. These
NOTAMs have been showing up lately for TTA, which is near Raleigh-Durham's class
C. ARGAL5 and BRADE5 are arrivals for RDU. DUAT plain-language translation:

Sanford NC (Sanford-Lee County Rgnl) [TTA]: January NOTAM #13 issued by UAR
ARGAL five arrival (ARGAL. ARGAL5) add TTA as an ELIGIBLE airport effective
from January 30th, 2004 at 11:24 AM EDT (0401301524)

Sanford NC (Sanford-Lee County Rgnl) [TTA]: January NOTAM #12 issued by UAR
BRADE five arrival (BRADE. BRADE5) add TTA as an ELIGIBLE airport effective
from January 30th, 2004 at 11:20 AM EDT (0401301520)


Idle curiosity: I wonder why the oddball effective times.
If you were approaching at 15:22, you could be issued
BRADE5 but not ARGAL5. Two minutes earlier and you can
get neither and two minutes later you can get either.
  #6  
Old May 11th 04, 04:58 PM
EDR
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Take a look at KCVG (Greater Cincinnati International). This is CBAS
and all the airports with instrument approaches within the Mode C veil
use the SIDs and STARs.
I always file "NO SIDS OR STARS" in the Remarks.
  #7  
Old May 11th 04, 05:46 PM
Steven P. McNicoll
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"EDR" wrote in message
...

Take a look at KCVG (Greater Cincinnati International). This is CBAS
and all the airports with instrument approaches within the Mode C veil
use the SIDs and STARs.
I always file "NO SIDS OR STARS" in the Remarks.


Why do you do that?


  #8  
Old May 11th 04, 05:49 PM
Dave Butler
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EDR wrote:
Take a look at KCVG (Greater Cincinnati International).


I don't understand. What do you mean "take a look at..."? Is there some document
you want me to see?

This is CBAS
and all the airports with instrument approaches within the Mode C veil
use the SIDs and STARs.


Where does it say that? In the document you want me to take a look at?

I always file "NO SIDS OR STARS" in the Remarks.


Why do you do that?

Not intentionally dense, I'm just not getting your meaning, somehow.

Dave
Remove SHIRT to reply directly.

  #9  
Old May 12th 04, 04:53 PM
EDR
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In article , Dave Butler
wrote:

EDR wrote:
Take a look at KCVG (Greater Cincinnati International).


I don't understand. What do you mean "take a look at..."? Is there some
document
you want me to see?


This is CBAS
and all the airports with instrument approaches within the Mode C veil
use the SIDs and STARs.


Where does it say that? In the document you want me to take a look at?


NOTAMs and Approach Plates

I always file "NO SIDS OR STARS" in the Remarks.


Why do you do that?
Not intentionally dense, I'm just not getting your meaning, somehow.


I am not a jet jockey. I fly a slow spam can. If I am given a SID or
STAR I am going to be flying miles out of my way, well below traffic
that the procedures are designed to separate.
  #10  
Old May 12th 04, 05:39 PM
Teacherjh
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I always file "NO SIDS OR STARS" in the Remarks.

Don't they just give you the SID or STAR anyway, just spell it out for you?
They want to vector you far away, they vector you far away./

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)
 




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