Are "Popups" A Hassle?

If I'm just trying to get over an overcast, I find that a "to VFR on
top" clearance is easier because the clearance limit can be within the
controllers airspace. If you ask to pick up an IFR ATC needs to
coordinate that clearance all the way to the destination, but if you
just do the "to VFR on top" using a nearby limit (VOR, intersection,
etc) he can do it on his own. I suppose you could also ask for an IFR
clearance just to the VOR but the couple times I've tried that the ATC
guys seemed to think it was very odd.

-Robert

wrote:


That's what I was saying. Although it is pretty sad that the nationwide
system cannot keep everything together in a unified way. It's not that it's that much
data... just that the system is so old that it cannot handle it. If a couple
megabytes of memory in a GPS can handle every APT, VOR, ADF, INT for all of north
america, regular computers shouldn't have trouble.

You don't know what you're asking for. A few MB of computer memory is
not the issue. If you take off VFR and fly from Miami to Seattle you
want you're IFR clearance to be ready at each controllers position along
the way. Do you have any idea how many IFR flightplans never get used
in the course of an average day?

Shouldn't he have some way of getting it though? (well, E.g. 30
minutes down the road rather than 2 hours) ?

Here's my specific example. I file IFR flight plan from Temple TPL to
San Antonio SAT. I take off VFR and head toward SAT. I'm in Gray
approach control's airspace when I take off, but 20 minutes later I'm
no longer in Gray's airspace. I decide I'd like to get my IFR
clearance so I call Houston Center. Should ZHU have a strip on me?
And if not, can they somehow pull it up, to give me a clearance using
that flight plan info?

I *think* the answers to those last two are no and no. But it seems
strange because it's all ZHU airspace, some of which is delegated to
Gray.

--
Cheers,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 13:46:30 -0600, Newps wrote:



wrote:


That's what I was saying. Although it is pretty sad that the nationwide
system cannot keep everything together in a unified way. It's not that it's that much
data... just that the system is so old that it cannot handle it. If a couple
megabytes of memory in a GPS can handle every APT, VOR, ADF, INT for all of north
america, regular computers shouldn't have trouble.

You don't know what you're asking for. A few MB of computer memory is
not the issue. If you take off VFR and fly from Miami to Seattle you
want you're IFR clearance to be ready at each controllers position along
the way. Do you have any idea how many IFR flightplans never get used
in the course of an average day?

Note: I have never been in an ATC facility, so I have no idea how the
systems actually work, nor the limitations.

However, in terms of technology, managing flightplans for every
aircraft in the US would be a trivial problem. This is exactly what
database programs are designed to do.

Upon initial contact from the aircraft, the controller, should be able
to key the N-number into a database and see if there is a flightplan
available. In this manner, each controller would have access to each
flightplan, but only as they need it.

An aging utility would go through and remove old flightplans.
Security and redudancy issues aside, I could have something like this
running on SQL and webconfigured in less than a week.

What am I missing? I am eager to learn how the current system works.

-Nathan

"Newps" wrote in message ...

... Do you have any idea how many IFR flightplans never get used
in the course of an average day?

No, but that's something I've been curious about for many years.
Please give us a ballpark idea. 1%? 10%? More?

Nathan Young wrote:

What am I missing? I am eager to learn how the current system works.

Apparently you are unfamiliar with the less-than-stellar FAA history of
large software projects. Case-in-point: STARs

--
Peter
























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Thanks to all who replied. My concerns have been answered.

wrote in message
...

That's what I was saying. Although it is pretty sad that the nationwide
system cannot keep everything together in a unified way. It's not that
it's that much data... just that the system is so old that it cannot
handle it.
If a couple megabytes of memory in a GPS can handle every APT, VOR,
ADF, INT for all of north america, regular computers shouldn't have
trouble.


Right. Let's put all the flight data in one system, give every controller
access to all of it, and make it easy to shut down the entire system.

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
ups.com...

If I'm just trying to get over an overcast, I find that a "to VFR on
top" clearance is easier because the clearance limit can be within the
controllers airspace. If you ask to pick up an IFR ATC needs to
coordinate that clearance all the way to the destination, but if you
just do the "to VFR on top" using a nearby limit (VOR, intersection,
etc) he can do it on his own. I suppose you could also ask for an IFR
clearance just to the VOR but the couple times I've tried that the ATC
guys seemed to think it was very odd.


If you cancel upon reaching VFR conditions you haven't operated VFR-on-top,
so why do you find that a "to VFR on top" clearance is easier?

"Nathan Young" wrote in message
...

Note: I have never been in an ATC facility, so I have no idea how the
systems actually work, nor the limitations.

However, in terms of technology, managing flightplans for every
aircraft in the US would be a trivial problem. This is exactly what
database programs are designed to do.

Upon initial contact from the aircraft, the controller, should be able
to key the N-number into a database and see if there is a flightplan
available. In this manner, each controller would have access to each
flightplan, but only as they need it.


Only as they need it? How does the computer know what controller needs
access to the flight plan at any moment?



An aging utility would go through and remove old flightplans.


Old flight plans are presently removed if they haven't been activated two
hours after the proposed departure time.



Security and redudancy issues aside, I could have something like this
running on SQL and webconfigured in less than a week.


But those are rather important issues.



What am I missing? I am eager to learn how the current system works.


What do you want to know?