If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#171
|
|||
|
|||
Roy Smith wrote: I imagine we could have pulled the tapes and listend to them, but it just didn't seem worthwhile going to that trouble. Actually it's pretty easy. Most facilities now have several days to nearly a week of "tapes" on a hard drive, depending on how busy a facility is. The voice data goes down on the hard drive with no gaps for dead air. So if you were to call up and provide a time it would be a simple matter of a few mouse clicks. Plus effective November 1st all tapes are now being kept for 45 days instead of 15. |
#172
|
|||
|
|||
"Icebound" wrote in message Consumers do not make wise choices. They do not care a damn about competance at all... They care about the lowest short-term cost. Hence they opt for the 2-dollar-per-day offshore wages and no pollution controls. That's ridiculous. If consumers didn't care about $2 wages we wouldn't a minimum wage law. If consumers didn't care about clean air/water/etc we wouldn't have all these pollution control laws. |
#173
|
|||
|
|||
"Ron Rosenfeld" wrote in message ... And if the tower folk were properly trained, which is what I've been trying to get you to contribute to, you would not have received that instruction. Well, I think it comes down to philosophy. I think it's just as much a pilot training issue. The instruction was terrible, but technically/procedurally correct as far as I have been able to establish. I now know what I can do to additionally ensure the safety of any flight I undertake, which is to always depart IFR using an ODP when available. That removes the controller training level from the risk equation. Tangentially, here are a couple of other 'best practices' (or personal minimums) to avoid other safety traps I've noticed. 1) Never cancel IFR until a landing is assured (i.e., after landing), or airport/nearby activity is enough that an unsuccessful approach will be immediately noticed. (Credit to United Airlines: learned while listening to channel 9 landing in a severely remote area late at night). 2) Decline visual approaches at night. |
#174
|
|||
|
|||
"Newps" wrote in message news:2rEqb.131847$HS4.1048024@attbi_s01... Roy Smith wrote: I imagine we could have pulled the tapes and listend to them, but it just didn't seem worthwhile going to that trouble. Actually it's pretty easy. Most facilities now have several days to nearly a week of "tapes" on a hard drive, depending on how busy a facility is. The voice data goes down on the hard drive with no gaps for dead air. So if you were to call up and provide a time it would be a simple matter of a few mouse clicks. Plus effective November 1st all tapes are now being kept for 45 days instead of 15. A speaker from PCT mentioned the hard drive use for storing the comm. It's nice to know that it's more prevalent than just being in the newest of facilities. |
#175
|
|||
|
|||
Newps wrote:
"Icebound" wrote in message Consumers do not make wise choices. They do not care a damn about competance at all... They care about the lowest short-term cost. Hence they opt for the 2-dollar-per-day offshore wages and no pollution controls. That's ridiculous. If consumers didn't care about $2 wages we wouldn't a minimum wage law. If consumers didn't care about clean air/water/etc we wouldn't have all these pollution control laws. Those things didn't come from consumers. They came grudgingly at the initiative of slightly progressive politicians under pressure from activists and scientists. When those same wage-earners become Consumers, they continue to buy from certain large, dominant chains who have tons of suppliers in the "emerging-economy" countries with questionable human rights and environmental records and low wages, but thats a whole other NG. -- God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. --- Serenity Prayer |
#176
|
|||
|
|||
"Newps" wrote in message news:CsEqb.131854$HS4.1048032@attbi_s01... That's ridiculous. If consumers didn't care about $2 wages we wouldn't a minimum wage law. If consumers didn't care about clean air/water/etc we wouldn't have all these pollution control laws. People stopped buying detergents with Phosphates long before the government banned them. Are these the same consumers that leave fast food wrappers and other trash blowing around? |
#177
|
|||
|
|||
"Icebound" wrote in message ogers.com... Newps wrote: "Icebound" wrote in message Consumers do not make wise choices. They do not care a damn about competance at all... They care about the lowest short-term cost. Hence they opt for the 2-dollar-per-day offshore wages and no pollution controls. That's ridiculous. If consumers didn't care about $2 wages we wouldn't a minimum wage law. If consumers didn't care about clean air/water/etc we wouldn't have all these pollution control laws. Those things didn't come from consumers. They came grudgingly at the initiative of slightly progressive politicians under pressure from activists and scientists. Cite? When those same wage-earners become Consumers, they continue to buy from certain large, dominant chains who have tons of suppliers in the "emerging-economy" countries with questionable human rights and environmental records and low wages, but thats a whole other NG. Cite? |
#178
|
|||
|
|||
On Thu, 6 Nov 2003 22:45:15 -0500, "Robert Henry"
wrote: The instruction was terrible, but technically/procedurally correct as far as I have been able to establish That removes the controller training level from the risk equation. I thought you said that ATC was not protecting the ODP for an IFR departure. If so, there is an ATC training issue that will affect other pilots who do things by the book. Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA) |
#179
|
|||
|
|||
"Ron Rosenfeld" wrote in message ... On Thu, 6 Nov 2003 22:45:15 -0500, "Robert Henry" wrote: The instruction was terrible, but technically/procedurally correct as far as I have been able to establish That removes the controller training level from the risk equation. I thought you said that ATC was not protecting the ODP for an IFR departure. If so, there is an ATC training issue that will affect other pilots who do things by the book. No, sorry for the confusion. In the discussions that followed, the tower suggested that I inform them of my intentions to fly the ODP (which is similar to the circumstances originating this thread, right?), so that they could coordinate better. The implication was that in vmc RAPCON could vector arriving aircraft on the visual approach further away from the ODP so that there would not be a head to head situation. There was nothing to imply that the ODP was not being protected. Now, it is my position that the safer procedure would be for the tower to automatically issue departure heading instructions that are consistent with the ODP. I think we agree on that. (Frankly, I know now that my error was in expecting this to happen - AGAIN, a misconception (that I believe non-scientifically could be fairly common about the level of service one can expect at a towered airport in a radar environment on an IFR flight plan.) Now, when the pilot contacts departure, he can say, "...can we get on course?" Departure can say, "radar contact, but I cannot turn you on course until you reach MVA." If conditions warrant, the pilot can come back and say, "We will maintain our own terrain clearance, request on course." All things being equal, that could be approved as requested with an instruction to maintain visual terrain clearance. |
#180
|
|||
|
|||
Icebound wrote: Those things didn't come from consumers. They came grudgingly at the initiative of slightly progressive politicians under pressure from activists and scientists. Nope, sorry. A few tree huggers don't have the political power necessary to force down all these changes. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
GPS approaches with Center | Dan Luke | Instrument Flight Rules | 104 | October 22nd 03 09:42 PM |
IFR Routing Toronto to Windsor (CYTZ - CYQG) | Rob Pesan | Instrument Flight Rules | 5 | October 7th 03 01:50 PM |
required readback on clearance | [email protected] | Instrument Flight Rules | 15 | September 17th 03 04:33 PM |
Picking up a Clearance Airborne | Brad Z | Instrument Flight Rules | 30 | August 29th 03 01:31 AM |
Big John Bites Dicks (Security Clearance) | Badwater Bill | Home Built | 27 | August 21st 03 12:40 AM |