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#11
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About avoiding airspace and cruising
On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 10:00:07 -0700, Erik
wrote in : Larry Dighera wrote: On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 09:29:58 -0700, Erik wrote in : What's the safest way to do this? If you are _sure_ of remaining outside of Class D airspace, contact the tower and advise them that you will be conducting a photo-shoot at the coordinates of the location (expressed as distance from a VOR on a given radial). It would also be good to request Radar Traffic Advisory Service (flight following) from the appropriate approach control facility prior to alerting the tower controllers. Outside of Class A, B, and C airspace, you are the Pilot In Command (PIC) of your flight operations, and it would be inappropriate for you to request permission from ATC for the flight you describe. Thanks. You're welcome. And thank you for taking the vindictive to inform yourself before venturing forth. That's what I thought. Other's may have other good ideas too, like the excellent suggestion to take along an observer or two. A person to act as photographer or a second pilot would be even better. Try circling at low level over a ground feature out in uncongealed airspace, and simulate taking the photographs in a safer environment first. You'll be better prepared for the demands of scanning for traffic, controlling the aircraft, and finding time to frame and focus the camera all simultaneously. Calling the tower when I'm not entering their airspace seemed wierd to me. I understand what you mean, but using common sense to enhance flight safety in every way possible is the objective, the way I see it. There is a GPS in the aircraft I rent whenever I figure I'm going to do something in the proximity of airspace so that I know where I'm at positively. It might not be a bad idea to have plotted out the VOR radial and distance on the ground during your flight planning just in case there's a Solar Mass Ejection of something that renders the GPS inoperative. Plan for all the possible contingencies that you are able to foresee. That's what a reasonable and prudent airman does, anything less could be construed by the FAA as reckless and careless under FAR Part 91 Sec. 91.13: http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory...6?OpenDocument I thought calling the tower and telling them that some jackass will be flying circles just outside of their airspace was a good idea, too, I presume you are just being candid among fellow airmen, but in dealing with ATC and the public, I would always don the most professional demeanor of which I was capable. That means remaining dignified, knowing the pertinent regulations, and acting accordingly. In my opinion, factitiousness is inappropriate when lives are on the line; dignity and respect will serve better. I'm always afraid of sounding like a dumbs417 calling towers, though. I avoid it at every opportunity. That is unfortunate. Communication when it can reduce risk is a valuable tool. I suffered from "mike fright" too until I read Bob Gardener's book: http://www.amazon.com/Say-Again-Plea...dp/1560275731/ Say Again, Please: Guide to Radio Communications |
#12
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About avoiding airspace and cruising
On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 18:08:22 GMT, Larry Dighera
wrote in : vindictive == initiative |
#13
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About avoiding airspace and cruising
Larry Dighera wrote:
You're welcome. And thank you for taking the vindictive to inform yourself before venturing forth. I find that when I am vindictive with ATC, they tend to treat me a little poorly. :P Other's may have other good ideas too, like the excellent suggestion to take along an observer or two. A person to act as photographer or a second pilot would be even better. That is the optimal, occasionally another person isn't available, but it isn't like this is an emergency, so it can be put off until it can be done safely. I really do want to wind up landing the plane at home base. Not the hardware store, though. I understand what you mean, but using common sense to enhance flight safety in every way possible is the objective, the way I see it. Safety. I presume you are just being candid among fellow airmen, but in dealing with ATC and the public Absolutely. I don't call ATC and tell them, "Some jackass will be making turns around a point 6 miles to your west".... Although, depending on the controller, there are some there with pretty good senses of humor and may get the joke, but a bona fide call would be forthcoming. |
#14
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About avoiding airspace and cruising
vindictive == initiative
Calling a tail a leg doesn't help a horse to walk. That's two strikes. Jose -- Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane. for Email, make the obvious change in the address. |
#15
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About avoiding airspace and cruising
Erik,
What's the safest way to do this? Tell the controllers what you want to do, where and at what altitude. That puts you into radio contact - and you'll be good. -- Thomas Borchert (EDDH) |
#16
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About avoiding airspace and cruising
Erik,
I avoid it at every opportunity. Big mistake. Huge! Many accident reports where one just has to think: Why didn't he just tell them? Your original question is the perfect example. Imagine the controllers have a radar screen and there comes this blip flying in real close to their airspace and starts circling right where the planes come in. You better believe they'd love to know what that blip has in mind, however awkward the guy piloting the blip might explain it ;-) Even if something like that can't be found in the standard phraseology, if you make it concise and to the point, everybody will win. Go become a talker! It's better for you and for everyone around. -- Thomas Borchert (EDDH) |
#17
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About avoiding airspace and cruising
Erik,
The smart thing would have been to call tower and tell them that I didn't have the traffic, So you learned. WHatever you do, don't let them fly the plane. "Unable" and "unfamiliar" are magic words for you to use. -- Thomas Borchert (EDDH) |
#18
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About avoiding airspace and cruising
Larry,
http://www.amazon.com/Say-Again-Plea...dp/1560275731/ Say Again, Please: Guide to Radio Communications I'll second that recommendation strongly. -- Thomas Borchert (EDDH) |
#19
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About avoiding airspace and cruising
In article ,
Erik wrote: Not the sicko kind of cruising, either. A friend of mine bought a house on some large property about six miles (linearly) away from a towered airport with class D five miles around it (one protrusion for approaches that I'm not concerned with). She's having a barn built and I'd like to fly over and take some pictures, but this puts me just outside of the airspace and somewhat inline with where aircraft come in, a somewhat popular route to arrive from. This is far enough away that I suspect most traffic is still at upwards of 2000' or better. I've flown over and found her house, but it always makes me nervous. Twitchy as a chipmunk in a cat house. Well, not a cathouse, really, but still. What's the safest way to do this? (Yes, my piloting is young yet, but I'm still proud of it.) Just call up the tower and tell them that you will be orbiting at 1500 (or whatever altitude you pick), near the north (east, whatever) edge of their airspace. Depending on the tower (i.e. whether they have radar or not), they may give you a squawk code, or may not. They'll probably just advise incomming and outgoing flights that you're there, and ask you to just advise them when you're ready to depart the area. If nothing else, it satisfies the "establish radio contact" rule, so you don't have to worry about accidentally encroaching on their airspace and being in violation. |
#20
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About avoiding airspace and cruising
Larry Dighera wrote:
On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 18:08:22 GMT, Larry Dighera wrote in : vindictive == initiative And "uncongealed airspace"? Beats the opposite, I guess. |
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