Discussion on dealing with future ADIZ Incursions by light A/C

"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:njVge.4958$1f5.2987@trndny01...
Chris Colohan wrote:

Another potential solution: charge pilots for the intercept. No
punishment, merely pass on the costs: bill stupid pilots for the cost
of the controller's time, blackhawk air & pilot time, and F16 air &
pilot time.

Perhaps the threat of receiving a $10,000 or more bill (not a fine,
merely a bill) will make folks more aware.

I think that after you factor in the costs of the panic/shutdown and
business
loss, that you're looking at something more like $250,000. An G-d help you
if
someone gets hurt during the evacuation.

Only if you've got deep pockets. Otherwise, no level stupidity gets
punished.

"Dave Stadt" wrote in message
m...

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:CcTge.77122$WI3.35627@attbi_s71...
The gravy days of flight are gone. When I was young, I could hop in my
dads Champ and fly about with nary a care. It's sad to see them go.

Not quite. Come to the Midwest -- the flying is still the same.

On second thought don't. We like the lack of traffic.

Ummm...that the Midwest. Where are you flying?

BTW, come out to the front range of the Rockies; maneuvering around all the
MOA's is like dodging shoppers in the aisle of a Wal-Mart.

wrote in message
oups.com...
No, the solution was EDUCATION of pilots, BY PILOTS

One fine day overhead DC at 2000ft AGL in a C150.
Student to instructor: 'Do you think we are allowed to fly here?'
Instructor: 'Hmmm, lets have a look.....Yep, I'm sure we can'
Student: 'Oh, what makes you so sure?'
Instructor: 'Look at all those F16's, they fly here'


Given that so many public school students are incredibly geographically
challenged, I could imagine that a couple pilots didn't recognize the "Big
Johnson" and assorted landmarks they were flying over.

"Dylan Smith" wrote in message
...
In article , Larry Dighera
wrote:
I think you're correct. The government is running scared of a
potential domestic insurrection as a result of population growth, and
taking this opportunity to put into place the (il)legal basis for
responding to any hint of it.

Whilst the vast majority of Americans enjoy a good, at least middle
class lifestyle, there will be no revolt or insurrection. Can you
imagine any typical middle class person sacrificing their nice
comfortable life for civil war? No, neither can I. It ain't gonna happen
unless the standard of living in the US collapses (and by collapse, I
mean to near famine levels - countries like Mexico which are endemic
with grinding poverty aren't in danger of insurrection).

It's happened twice before in our country.

But probably the surest way to instigate an insurrection would be to cut the
cable TV feeds for ESPN and MTV.

"Icebound" wrote in message
...

"Dudley Henriques" dhenriques@noware .net wrote in message
. net...

...snip...
This is not the same world that it was before 9-11.


Actually, it is. We are just trying very hard to pretend it is not.

There was terrorism before 9/11. There were nuclear bombs, ground wars,
air
wars, genocide, many *hundreds* of thousands of people killed on side or
another. There were oppressive dictators and benevolent democracies.
There
were the nourished, the privileged, and the starving. There were civil
airliners shot down. There were the "just" wars, and there were the
imperial
oppressions.

There were air blitzes on cities and countryside, with thousands dying.

What is so different now?

What is different is the U.S. government got involved and as it always does
in such situations its responds by punishing its law abiding citizens.

"Dave Stadt" wrote in message
m...

"Icebound" wrote in message
...

"Dudley Henriques" dhenriques@noware .net wrote in message
. net...

...snip...
This is not the same world that it was before 9-11.


Actually, it is. We are just trying very hard to pretend it is not.

There was terrorism before 9/11. There were nuclear bombs, ground wars,
air
wars, genocide, many *hundreds* of thousands of people killed on side
or
another. There were oppressive dictators and benevolent democracies.
There
were the nourished, the privileged, and the starving. There were civil
airliners shot down. There were the "just" wars, and there were the
imperial
oppressions.

There were air blitzes on cities and countryside, with thousands dying.

What is so different now?

What is different is the U.S. government got involved and as it always
does
in such situations its responds by punishing its law abiding citizens.

And the US government is alone in this?

Well, cars and trucks are intercepted entering Manhattan. Easy enough to do with an island.

Cars and trucks entering Manhattan don't have to be on an authorized
flight plan, nor do they have to be tracked after they enter.

Mayor Daley has been asking exactly the same question for years. You want to have to fly around another ADIZ to get to Oshkosh?

Since I'm not going to Oshkosh, why should I care?

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

In article ,
Jose wrote:

Well, cars and trucks are intercepted entering Manhattan. Easy enough to do
with an island.

Cars and trucks entering Manhattan don't have to be on an authorized
flight plan, nor do they have to be tracked after they enter.

Then clearly authorization should be required of those danagerous vehicles.

--
Bob Noel
no one likes an educated mule

"Icebound" wrote in message
...

"Dudley Henriques" dhenriques@noware .net wrote in message
. net...

...snip...
This is not the same world that it was before 9-11.


Actually, it is. We are just trying very hard to pretend it is not.

There was terrorism before 9/11. There were nuclear bombs, ground wars,
air wars, genocide, many *hundreds* of thousands of people killed on side
or another. There were oppressive dictators and benevolent democracies.
There were the nourished, the privileged, and the starving. There were
civil airliners shot down. There were the "just" wars, and there were the
imperial oppressions.

There were air blitzes on cities and countryside, with thousands dying.

What is so different now?

All of the above is true, but 9-11 changed everything anyway.

The same things are still going on; it's just that enough people were
temporarily paying attention after 9-11 that the politicians had to take
notice.
I have no doubt that given enough time without another hit.....based on past
experience......we will probably as a nation go right back into the same
denial and ignore mode we were in before 9-11.
Dudley Henriques

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message ...


Ummm...that the Midwest. Where are you flying?

BTW, come out to the front range of the Rockies; maneuvering around all the
MOA's is like dodging shoppers in the aisle of a Wal-Mart.



MOAs are shared airspace, right?