Picking up a Clearance Airborne

After taking off, I contacted the departure freq on the approach chart for
0W3. The controller chewed me out for departing VFR, made a comment that it
was unsafe, and sent me to another frequency. I tried the new freq, and
this controller chewed me out even further, refused to get my clearance, and
told me I should have gotten it on the ground.

That's very odd indeed. Popups are one thing, but a filed flight plan
should have gotten you a better treatment. In fact, picking up the
clearance airborne (assumming you can maintain VFR, of course) is
usually doing the whole system a favor, as opposed to being cleared by
FSS with void time and blocking a relatively large chunk of airspace
for 10-15 minutes.

My guess is you simply ran into some a**holes that day, VFR is VFR, I
believe you are not creating any operational problem by asking for
your clearance that's on file. Or maybe the controllers believed you
were IMC because of some erroneous bases report they got earlier. If
the specific time/location is inconvenient for ATC, they can always
ask you to standby or maintain VFR to some fix/altitude. The scenario
where climbing will put you in the clouds bellow their MVAs can be
handled by declaring you can maintain own terrain separation up to
blah (but make sure you really can).

"PlanetJ" wrote in message
...
Contact the local FAA Regional office and file a communication complaint.
Inform the FAA(Airways Facilities) that insufficient ground communications
exist at Harford and you would like to see a GCO(Ground Communication
Outlet) or RCO(Remote Communication Outlet) installed at that location.

Inform the FAA that a safety of flight issue exists due to poor ground
communications. Also contact the congressional representative for that
area
and tell him or her the same story. The FAA regional office for that area
I
believe is the Eastern Region in New York City near JFK.


All excellent ideas, I hope "Brad Z" follows them. I've never had a problem
picking up a clearance after a VFR departure, but if this can't be tolerated
from a particular airport they need to provide a method to communicate
besides cell phones and it needs to be NOTAMed. Berating a pilot in the air
for following a legal and normally appropriate procedure doesn't advance
safety and security.

-Greg


"Brad Z" wrote in message
. net...
I was departing Harford Co MD airport yesterday (0W3) enroute to
Chesterfield MD (FCI). 0W3 is a small non-towered field with no ground
communications to ATC or FSS. In trying to pick up my clearance on the
ground, I attempted to contact Leesburg FSS on the 1-800-WX-BRIEF. Due
to
call volume, I was routed to Altoona FSS, which did not have access to
my
flight plan and said that I needed to call Leesburg directly. So I
called
the direct Leesburg number, and after staying on hold for 15 minutes
(meanwhile my cellphone battery charge is ticking away) I decided to
hang
up, and get my clearance airborne.

The weather was VFR, albeit a bit hazy. Even though 0W3 is just north
of
the ADIZ, I really wanted to get my clearance prior to departure just
because my route would eventually take me into the ADIZ.

I ultimately decided that I would depart VFR to the north, and circle if
necessary, until I was cleared enroute.

After taking off, I contacted the departure freq on the approach chart
for
0W3. The controller chewed me out for departing VFR, made a comment
that
it
was unsafe, and sent me to another frequency. I tried the new freq, and
this controller chewed me out even further, refused to get my clearance,
and
told me I should have gotten it on the ground. Explaining to my
passenger
(1st time flying with me) that the ground was a better place to deal
with
this than the air, I returned to the field to start making phone calls.

I finally got the number for Potomac approach, got my clearance. I was
told
to call back right before I was airborne. (Is a cell phone now a
require
piece of comm equipment in an IFR aircraft?)

I know the controllers were busy at that moment and that's why refused
my
clearance. Why didn't they just issue a sqawk code with the
instructions
"remain vfr"? Does it have to do with the nearby ADIZ? I guess my
confusion is this: I've picked up clearances in the air on numerous
occasions. I thought it made it easier for them because they did not
have
to block out airspace for my departure. I've even been denied a
clearance
through an RCO on the ground at a Charlotte area airport and asked to
pick
it up airborne. While I didn't appreciate the on-air chew out from the
controller, I am not really upset, I just want to know how I should know
these things ahead of time. I haven't been able to find guidance from
the
AIM or 7110.65, NOTAMS or otherwise.

Brad

I once took off from Oceanside (north of San Diego), and had a very
hard time picking up my clearance. In this case it would have been
better to have opened on the ground. In my case, the inexperienced
controller didn't really know what to do with me, because the cloud
bases were below the MVA. She gave me a squawk code, but didn't open
my IFR flight plan and gave me a "suggested vector" to an altitude
that would take me into the clouds (in Class E airspace). I also
believe there are some accidents related to pilots flying around below
a low cloud deck while trying to open their IFR flight plan. I
remember a Citation in the Atlanta area.

Be careful out there.

Hello, I understand what your saying but if your not sure you can remain vfr
you should file IFR. I have never had any difficulty in getting clearance
to deviate flight path to go around build-ups. In fact, during the flight
that I was referring to in my original post, the controller stated Radar
contact lost (he never had it to begin with) and for me to do what I needed
to do. I expect that he had no other traffic in the area. I was told to
report being re established on the victor airway, which I did. I have
strike finder and capability to download nexrad to the Garmin 430 which
helps some. I'm based in SE US so afternoon CBs are common and you sort of
learn to deal with them through experience. Best advice, as you said, stay
out of the build-ups.
"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
"PA28Rdrvr" wrote:
Weather was VFR but lots of convective activity, sky broken.
[...]
It's amazing that I have become, over time, uncomfortable going VFR
cross
country.

With lots of convective activity, I'd rather be VFR. I don't want to
fly into a CB, so VFR will allow me to visually navigate around the
buildups. IFR, I'm at the mercy of the controller as to where I go.
Once he puts me into a cloud, I can no longer see what's ahead. My
first hint that the benign-looking CU I flew into has turned into
something nastier may be my head bouncing off the cabin top.

Roy Smith wrote in message ...
"PA28Rdrvr" wrote:
Weather was VFR but lots of convective activity, sky broken.
[...]
It's amazing that I have become, over time, uncomfortable going VFR cross
country.

With lots of convective activity, I'd rather be VFR. I don't want to
fly into a CB, so VFR will allow me to visually navigate around the
buildups. IFR, I'm at the mercy of the controller as to where I go.
Once he puts me into a cloud, I can no longer see what's ahead. My
first hint that the benign-looking CU I flew into has turned into
something nastier may be my head bouncing off the cabin top.

He can't put you anywhere, he can ask you to go somewhere. You can say
no. Besides he'll usually see the CU on his radar too. If he says fly
heading xyz you say, unable. In real life controllers tend to ask you
if a heading is ok when CUs are around. IFR does not mean you have to
fly into a TS.

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
om...

He can't put you anywhere, he can ask you to go somewhere. You can say
no.


If you're going to refuse to enter clouds why are you operating IFR?



Besides he'll usually see the CU on his radar too.


He can see precipitation on his radar, he can't see clouds.

I agree. I was flying in FL last spring with some convective activity in
the area. ATC had me on a course directly into some dark looking clouds
that the strikefinder said were active. I asked ATC to deviate and they
told me to wait for a minute. They called me back in a minute and told me
to deviate at my discretion. I was just about to call them back and tell
them I was deviating whether they liked it or not (in nice terms of
course), and i would have.

"PA28Rdrvr" wrote in
:

Hello, I understand what your saying but if your not sure you can
remain vfr you should file IFR. I have never had any difficulty in
getting clearance to deviate flight path to go around build-ups. In
fact, during the flight that I was referring to in my original post,
the controller stated Radar contact lost (he never had it to begin
with) and for me to do what I needed to do. I expect that he had no
other traffic in the area. I was told to report being re established
on the victor airway, which I did. I have strike finder and
capability to download nexrad to the Garmin 430 which helps some. I'm
based in SE US so afternoon CBs are common and you sort of learn to
deal with them through experience. Best advice, as you said, stay out
of the build-ups. "Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
"PA28Rdrvr" wrote:
Weather was VFR but lots of convective activity, sky broken.
[...]
It's amazing that I have become, over time, uncomfortable going VFR
cross
country.

With lots of convective activity, I'd rather be VFR. I don't want to
fly into a CB, so VFR will allow me to visually navigate around the
buildups. IFR, I'm at the mercy of the controller as to where I go.
Once he puts me into a cloud, I can no longer see what's ahead. My
first hint that the benign-looking CU I flew into has turned into
something nastier may be my head bouncing off the cabin top.

"tscottme" wrote in message
...

Brad Z wrote in message
. net...
I was departing Harford Co MD airport yesterday (0W3) enroute to
Chesterfield MD (FCI). 0W3 is a small non-towered field with no
ground
communications to ATC or FSS. In trying to pick up my clearance on
the
ground, I attempted to contact Leesburg FSS on the 1-800-WX-BRIEF.
Due to
call volume,
snip

I would have told the controller something like, "if I had known being
elected to Congress would do me no good in times like this, I would have
just remained Governor."

--

LOL!

Either that or: "Potomac Approach, N123, this is the Eastern Regional
Administrator. Give me your operating initials over this frequency. Advise
you contact your NATCA representative. I will be calling the facility
management via commercial landline within 60 minutes to discuss your
on-the-job performance and certification remedy. Over..."


Chip, ZTL

Leaving Houston once, I encountered the opposite ends of the
human spectrum on the same frequency. The first guy was doing
everything he could to make sure I was having a bad day ....

Perhaps I've just been lucky, but in more than 25 years of flying IFR
as a civilian and a few years in the military before that, I can't
remember EVER being treated badly by a controller.

vince norris

Steven,
I'm not talking about clouds, I'm talking about thunderstorms. If the
thunderstorms are that embedded you'd better have your own radar,
storm scope available. ATC radar is usually ok is spotting
thunderstorms although they seem to also pick up false returns.

-Robert

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message ink.net...
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
om...

He can't put you anywhere, he can ask you to go somewhere. You can say
no.


If you're going to refuse to enter clouds why are you operating IFR?



Besides he'll usually see the CU on his radar too.


He can see precipitation on his radar, he can't see clouds.