Question for any commericial airline rules experts out there

I took the last half hour to read all the FARs, FAAs, PDQs and XYZs, and I can't find where they say that I can't wear my headphones when the airplane is coming in for landing. (And no, I'm not flying the airplane!)

I don't use my headphones for listening to anything but silence; they're the Bose noise-reduction model that uses a single battery.

I fly twice a week. The Southwest Airlines flight attendants have been very inconsistent. Some ignore the headphones, some make sure I'm not listening to anything but allow me to keep them turned on, others allow me to wear them as long as I turn the power switch to "off", others make me take them off entirely, and some of them enjoy making it an audition for the Niedermeyer All-Stars.

Is there a case I can make for keeping them on?

-ted c "to z or not to z" wagner

Here ya go:
(bottom line is, it's up to the operator)

§ 121.306 Portable electronic devices.
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may
operate, nor may any operator or pilot in command of an aircraft allow the
operation of, any portable electronic device on any U.S.-registered civil
aircraft operating under this part.
(b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to --
(1) Portable voice recorders;
(2) Hearing aids;
(3) Heart pacemakers;
(4) Electric shavers; or
(5) Any other portable electronic device that the part 119 certificate
holder has determined will not cause interference with the navigation or
communication system of the aircraft on which it is to be used.
(c) The determination required by paragraph (b)(5) of this section shall be
made by that part 119 certificate holder operating the particular device to
be used.
[Doc. No. FAA-1998-4954, 64 FR 1080, Jan. 7, 1999]

"Ted Wagner" wrote in message
news:kBYUb.51455$F15.22199@fed1read06...
I took the last half hour to read all the FARs, FAAs, PDQs and XYZs, and I
can't find where they say that I can't wear my headphones when the airplane
is coming in for landing. (And no, I'm not flying the airplane!)

I don't use my headphones for listening to anything but silence; they're the
Bose noise-reduction model that uses a single battery.

I fly twice a week. The Southwest Airlines flight attendants have been very
inconsistent. Some ignore the headphones, some make sure I'm not listening
to anything but allow me to keep them turned on, others allow me to wear
them as long as I turn the power switch to "off", others make me take them
off entirely, and some of them enjoy making it an audition for the
Niedermeyer All-Stars.

Is there a case I can make for keeping them on?

-ted c "to z or not to z" wagner

On 2/6/04 9:04 PM, in article kBYUb.51455$F15.22199@fed1read06, "Ted Wagner"
wrote:

I took the last half hour to read all the FARs, FAAs, PDQs and XYZs, and I
can't find where they say that I can't wear my headphones when the airplane is
coming in for landing. (And no, I'm not flying the airplane!)

[....]

Is there a case I can make for keeping them on?

Ted, I think you are out of luck. The short answer is, if the crew says turn
'em off, then you turn 'em off.

If you'd like to make your case to the Engineering department afterwards,
and seek formal approval for your equipment, be prepared to spend a great
deal of time and money on a very complex testing regimen.

There has been considerable discussion over the years about the use of
electronic equipment in the cabin, not only during the takeoff and landing
phases but enroute as well. Some restrictions are written in the airline's
operating procedures. Some crews will not let you operate equipment for
which there is no specific prohibition. The basis for this position is
usually that, even though certain equipment may have been tested (most
specific units probably have not been tested) and found not to cause a
problem, no one has any idea what a whole cabin full of various types of
equipment might do to the electronic systems of modern airliners.

There is a number of reports of in-flight episodes of what appear to be
passenger electronic equipment interference with aircraft navigation
equipment -- enough so that many prudent Captains will take a hard line on
the use of any equipment not specifically allowed (of which there are very
few examples other than hearing aids, heart monitors/pacemakers, and other
absolutely necessary equipment) during any phase of flight.

This is the general outlook I'd want in any crew I'm riding with, though
passengers who can't leave their toys at home, or at least in their luggage
for the duration of the flight, may not agree. The job of the crew is to get
you there in one piece, every time, no matter what, and if taking a hard
line with electronics removes one more variable from the mix, I'm all for
it.

One of the many nice things about being the Captain is never having to say
you're sorry for following the rules, and for choosing the safest reasonable
course of action whenever there is no specific guidance available. Just as
the crew doesn't get to choose which of the FARs to ignore in normal
operation, so the passengers have little recourse during the flight if they
disagree with the crew's instructions. You don't have to like it, but you
are required to comply. In the present climate especially, one would not
want to be met at the arrival gate by a law enforcement team who will be
happy to ruin the rest of ones schedule for the day. You can always write a
letter later, of course, but don't expect it to do much good. If the crew
has handled your case in a professional manner, you can at best hope for a
polite note in response which pretends to apologize for any "inconvenience".

Now that I have thirty years of safe airline flying behind me, I have the
privilege of pursuing another very challenging aspect of aviation, soaring
over the nearly endless corn and bean fields of NE Illinois, and I think I'm
going to like it.

I don't miss the glass cockpit at all. ;



Jack

Ted Wagner wrote:

I took the last half hour to read all the FARs, FAAs, PDQs and XYZs, and =
I can't find where they say that I can't wear my headphones when the =
airplane is coming in for landing. (And no, I'm not flying the =
airplane!)

I don't use my headphones for listening to anything but silence; they're =
the Bose noise-reduction model that uses a single battery.

I fly twice a week. The Southwest Airlines flight attendants have been =
very inconsistent. Some ignore the headphones, some make sure I'm not =
listening to anything but allow me to keep them turned on, others allow =
me to wear them as long as I turn the power switch to "off", others make =
me take them off entirely, and some of them enjoy making it an audition =
for the Niedermeyer All-Stars.

Is there a case I can make for keeping them on?

-ted c "to z or not to z" wagner

Part 91.21 is in addition to the part 121 stuff, if you care to
look at it.

Rumor had it this all started because some FM receivers were somehow
interfering with ADF on "fly-by-night" airlines flying over
Cuba that got off course (the route over cuba was
ADF only until GPS).

Then I guess smart guys probably got into it and noticed
MOST electronic devices put out some kind of transmission at
some frequency. If one was unlucky, that could make
compasses, VORs, ADF's, etc. do interesting things.

Both part 91 and part 121 seem to give a lot of discretion
to the PIC, and therefore his crew (including the
stewarde...er. Flight Attendants). I suspect if you
show them a manual that says "for flight use" they'd
probably just shrug.

My "ear putty" earplugs seem to do ok for me.
Got them at Long's. Good for swimming too...

www.ear-mart.com/water-noise.asp

"I am not recieving a commision nor free products for this
unsolicited endorsement, but would not turn
them down if offered" :P

"Mark James Boyd" wrote in message
news:40252d39$1@darkstar...

Both part 91 and part 121 seem to give a lot of discretion
to the PIC, and therefore his crew (including the
stewarde...er. Flight Attendants).

Actually, it gives that "discretion" to the certificate holder, which in the
case of a Part 121 airline is certainly not the PIC, it's the airline. All
121 (and probably 135)airlines have policies for PED, some are different
from others and all flight and cabin crews know their airline's policy on
PED use. That's why some airlines (mostly all these days) allow you to turn
your cell phone on after landing, but prior to parking at the gate - and
others do not. It's up to the airline and their written policy.

Not long ago some guy got popped for text-messaging on his cell phone
inflight, most people are not aware that non-certicated individuals can
receive a civil penalty as the result of an enforcement case involving 14
CFR (what we know as the "FAR's"). I don't think he did any hard time, but
maybe they made him clean the lav grinder or some such suitable punishment.

Part 91 rules are out of my league.

Jim

"Jim Phoenix" wrote in message ...
Here ya go:
(bottom line is, it's up to the operator)
single battery.

I fly twice a week. The Southwest Airlines flight attendants have been very
inconsistent. Some ignore the headphones, some make sure I'm not listening
to anything but allow me to keep them turned on, others allow me to wear
them as long as I turn the power switch to "off", others make me take them
off entirely, and some of them enjoy making it an audition for the
Niedermeyer All-Stars.

Is there a case I can make for keeping them on?

http://www1.faa.gov/avr/afs/acs/91-21_1.txt

(6) Prohibiting the operation of any portable
electronic devices during the takeoff and landing phases of
flight. It must be recognized that the potential for personal
injury to passengers is a paramount consideration as well as the
possibility of missing important safety announcements during
these important phases of flight. This is in addition to
lessening the possible interference that may arise during sterile
cockpit operations (below 10,000 feet).

Jim Phoenix wrote:

"Mark James Boyd" wrote in message
news:40252d39$1@darkstar...

Both part 91 and part 121 seem to give a lot of discretion
to the PIC, and therefore his crew (including the
stewarde...er. Flight Attendants).

Part 91 rules are out of my league.

Part 91 uses the word "operator," whatever that means.

As far as part 121, that is apparently far out of MY league...