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Frontline documentary on the problems with regionals



 
 
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  #21  
Old February 18th 10, 05:49 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.travel.air
Mxsmanic
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Posts: 9,169
Default Frontline documentary on the problems with regionals

FlyCherokee writes:

Now that's very interesting, I hadn't heard that before. If your
suspicion is true, it would be a much more reasonable explanation for
his behavior than gross incompetence.


Why would it be more reasonable when the bulk of the evidence points to
incompetence?
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  #22  
Old February 18th 10, 11:13 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.travel.air
Morgans[_2_]
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Default Frontline documentary on the problems with regionals


"James Robinson" wrote

In the NTSB presentations at the public hearing, they noted that Colgan
Air presented a video on tailplane icing in their training courses. The
NTSB went on to note that the Dash 8 is not susceptible to tailplane
stalls in icing, nor are any other current Part 121 aircraft.

The thirteenth conclusion in their summary was:

13 - It is unlikely that the captain was deliberately attempting to
perform a tailplane stall recovery.


I seem to recall something about the captain responded to a suspected
tailplane stall by taking the action that was appropriate to the specific
type of aircraft he had _previously_ been flying, from which he had only
recently changed to the type he was flying in the accident. The pilots were
not attentive to their airspeed in the final moments of the flight, which
probably was the largest contributor to the cause of the accident, as I
recall.
--
Jim in NC


  #23  
Old February 19th 10, 01:07 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.travel.air
James Robinson
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Posts: 180
Default Frontline documentary on the problems with regionals

"Morgans" wrote:


"James Robinson" wrote

In the NTSB presentations at the public hearing, they noted that
Colgan Air presented a video on tailplane icing in their training
courses. The NTSB went on to note that the Dash 8 is not susceptible
to tailplane stalls in icing, nor are any other current Part 121
aircraft.

The thirteenth conclusion in their summary was:

13 - It is unlikely that the captain was deliberately attempting to
perform a tailplane stall recovery.


I seem to recall something about the captain responded to a suspected
tailplane stall by taking the action that was appropriate to the
specific type of aircraft he had _previously_ been flying, from which
he had only recently changed to the type he was flying in the
accident. The pilots were not attentive to their airspeed in the final
moments of the flight, which probably was the largest contributor to
the cause of the accident, as I recall.


Yes, there was much discussion on various forums and blogs about how the
captain had previously flown Saabs, which were subject to tailplane
stalls. The NTSB would have know that, so it is interesting that they
express such a strong conviction that he was not trying to recover from
such a stall. They must have their reasons, but I suppose we will have
to wait for their final report to see what they are.

(I didn't listen to the NTSB hearing, so I don't know if they expanded on
their reasoning during the discussions.)
  #24  
Old February 19th 10, 02:07 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.travel.air
Peter Dohm
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Posts: 1,754
Default Frontline documentary on the problems with regionals

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"James Robinson" wrote

In the NTSB presentations at the public hearing, they noted that Colgan
Air presented a video on tailplane icing in their training courses. The
NTSB went on to note that the Dash 8 is not susceptible to tailplane
stalls in icing, nor are any other current Part 121 aircraft.

The thirteenth conclusion in their summary was:

13 - It is unlikely that the captain was deliberately attempting to
perform a tailplane stall recovery.


I seem to recall something about the captain responded to a suspected
tailplane stall by taking the action that was appropriate to the specific
type of aircraft he had _previously_ been flying, from which he had only
recently changed to the type he was flying in the accident. The pilots
were not attentive to their airspeed in the final moments of the flight,
which probably was the largest contributor to the cause of the accident,
as I recall.
--
Jim in NC

My recollection is the same.

Actually, the appearance that they were "chasing the airspeed" suggests some
interesting possiblilities. My personal suspicion is that fatigue played a
major role in the poor airspeed control which fed the accident sequence; and
I have yet to decide whether (or how) that possibility might influence any
future flying decisions as an airline passenger.

Peter



  #25  
Old February 19th 10, 08:40 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.travel.air
Mxsmanic
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Posts: 9,169
Default Frontline documentary on the problems with regionals

Morgans writes:

I seem to recall something about the captain responded to a suspected
tailplane stall by taking the action that was appropriate to the specific
type of aircraft he had _previously_ been flying ...


The action for a tailplane stall would have been the same. For a tailplane
stall, you pull back on the yoke.
  #26  
Old February 19th 10, 08:41 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.travel.air
Mxsmanic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,169
Default Frontline documentary on the problems with regionals

Peter Dohm writes:

Actually, the appearance that they were "chasing the airspeed" suggests some
interesting possiblilities.


From the flight-data animation and transcript, it's obvious that they weren't
even paying attention to airspeed.
 




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