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#1
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Aerotow rope drogue chute?
I have a vague recollection that a while back someone
mentioned in passing that their club used a little drougue chute near the glider end of the aerotow rope to fly the rings higher during approach and landing. Does that ring any bells? If so I would appreciate some information - or did I just imagine it? |
#2
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This sounds like bad news to me, it increases the risk that the rope may
foul the glider after release. I recall that there was a fatality in New Zealand when the rope had a funnel close to the end, to stabilise it; it also caused the rope to ride high. The glider was a Slingsby Dart, and after release the rope wrapped round a tailplane. Also, in the U.K. there was a fatality to a Bocian flown solo when the rope fouled the glider, I am not sure whether this was after release or due to a bow in the rope. Anything which might cause the rope to get close to the glider after release should be avoided. W.J. (Bill) Dean (U.K.). Remove "ic" to reply. "John Galloway" wrote in message ... I have a vague recollection that a while back someone mentioned in passing that their club used a little drougue chute near the glider end of the aerotow rope to fly the rings higher during approach and landing. Does that ring any bells? If so I would appreciate some information - or did I just imagine it? |
#3
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Why would a rope foul a glider tail plane unless it was a very slack line
and back released.. We use a "drag" device, wiffle balls, to help the tow rope "fly higher" than with the weight of the Tost ring better clear the approach end fence, and to keep the rope from "whipping" and tying itself in knots. Of course, I'm told, that the people in OZ fly "low tow", below the prop wash, so on release.. I can see where the rope will "ascend" and possible smack the canopy if released with any slack. I prefer to release at or very slightly above the tow planes altitude, always watching the rope drop away, even with the "drag device". BT "W.J. (Bill) Dean (U.K.)." wrote in message ... This sounds like bad news to me, it increases the risk that the rope may foul the glider after release. I recall that there was a fatality in New Zealand when the rope had a funnel close to the end, to stabilise it; it also caused the rope to ride high. The glider was a Slingsby Dart, and after release the rope wrapped round a tailplane. Also, in the U.K. there was a fatality to a Bocian flown solo when the rope fouled the glider, I am not sure whether this was after release or due to a bow in the rope. Anything which might cause the rope to get close to the glider after release should be avoided. W.J. (Bill) Dean (U.K.). Remove "ic" to reply. "John Galloway" wrote in message ... I have a vague recollection that a while back someone mentioned in passing that their club used a little drougue chute near the glider end of the aerotow rope to fly the rings higher during approach and landing. Does that ring any bells? If so I would appreciate some information - or did I just imagine it? |
#4
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At Dunstable we experimented a few years ago with devices to make the rope
fly higher; useful as we are surrounded by fences, hedges and power wires. We found that while these worked, they were not nearly tough enough to withstand being dragged about on the surface of our airfield and were rapidly destroyed after a few backtracks. As a result we abandoned the experiment. The real point about avoiding collisions between the glider and the rope after release is that the glider MUST make a climbing turn immediately after the pilot has ascertained that the rope has been released. As an instructor, I find there is in increasing tendency for students not to do this, probably because their mind-set is established by winch launching, where lowering the nose after release is the normal action. When flying with an aerotow-cleared student for the first time, I work on the worst-case assumption they will push rather than pull after releasing the aerotow. I guard the stick as they release and if they don't make an adequate climbing turn, I take control immediately, make the climbing turn, and make a mental note to mention this item to the student in the post-flight debrief. In this case I would insist on a second aerotow in which I want to see the student demonstrate the correct technique after release before I sign them off. This might seem harsh but it could be a life-saver. David Starer "W.J. (Bill) Dean (U.K.)." wrote in message ... This sounds like bad news to me, it increases the risk that the rope may foul the glider after release. I recall that there was a fatality in New Zealand when the rope had a funnel close to the end, to stabilise it; it also caused the rope to ride high. The glider was a Slingsby Dart, and after release the rope wrapped round a tailplane. Also, in the U.K. there was a fatality to a Bocian flown solo when the rope fouled the glider, I am not sure whether this was after release or due to a bow in the rope. Anything which might cause the rope to get close to the glider after release should be avoided. W.J. (Bill) Dean (U.K.). Remove "ic" to reply. "John Galloway" wrote in message ... I have a vague recollection that a while back someone mentioned in passing that their club used a little drougue chute near the glider end of the aerotow rope to fly the rings higher during approach and landing. Does that ring any bells? If so I would appreciate some information - or did I just imagine it? |
#5
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BT,
What is a wiffle ball made of and what size is it and how long do they last on the end of tow ropes? Thanks, John Galloway At 04:18 08 December 2003, Btiz wrote: Why would a rope foul a glider tail plane unless it was a very slack line and back released.. We use a 'drag' device, wiffle balls, to help the tow rope 'fly higher' than with the weight of the Tost ring better clear the approach end fence, and to keep the rope from 'whipping' and tying itself in knots. Of course, I'm told, that the people in OZ fly 'low tow', below the prop wash, so on release.. I can see where the rope will 'ascend' and possible smack the canopy if released with any slack. I prefer to release at or very slightly above the tow planes altitude, always watching the rope drop away, even with the 'drag device'. BT |
#6
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What is a wiffle ball made of and what size is it and
how long do they last on the end of tow ropes? John Galloway It's a little hollow plastic ball about the size of an orange or softball which has a bunch of holes through it to make it even less aerodynamic. Kids buy them with a plastic bat and can hit the ball as hard as they want and it only goes about 5 feet (that's about 1.6 meters for you international chaps). Buy a set for your kids, and when they get tired of it, cut the balls in half and put them on the end of the tow rope. The bat is useless for the tow pilot, but I've seen instructors use them to help improve student progress ;-P They last I dunno, maybe hundreds of tows? I guess it depends on cement vs. dirt runways... |
#7
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John Galloway wrote in message ...
BT, What is a wiffle ball made of and what size is it and how long do they last on the end of tow ropes? Thanks, John Galloway At 04:18 08 December 2003, Btiz wrote: Why would a rope foul a glider tail plane unless it was a very slack line and back released.. We use a 'drag' device, wiffle balls, to help the tow rope 'fly higher' than with the weight of the Tost ring better clear the approach end fence, and to keep the rope from 'whipping' and tying itself in knots. Of course, I'm told, that the people in OZ fly 'low tow', below the prop wash, so on release.. I can see where the rope will 'ascend' and possible smack the canopy if released with any slack. I prefer to release at or very slightly above the tow planes altitude, always watching the rope drop away, even with the 'drag device'. BT hit the canopy When one exercise a correct release in either high or low tow the rops will not |
#8
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Mark,
Thanks. Sounds worthy of a trial. John Galloway At 21:24 08 December 2003, Mark James Boyd wrote: What is a wiffle ball made of and what size is it and how long do they last on the end of tow ropes? John Galloway It's a little hollow plastic ball about the size of an orange or softball which has a bunch of holes through it to make it even less aerodynamic. Kids buy them with a plastic bat and can hit the ball as hard as they want and it only goes about 5 feet (that's about 1.6 meters for you international chaps). Buy a set for your kids, and when they get tired of it, cut the balls in half and put them on the end of the tow rope. The bat is useless for the tow pilot, but I've seen instructors use them to help improve student progress ;-P They last I dunno, maybe hundreds of tows? I guess it depends on cement vs. dirt runways... |
#9
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I agree completely with David Starer about what pupils ought to do, and what
to do about it if they don't. What I don't understand is why some instructors teach the pupil to pull the release twice. If it does not release the first time, why should it release the second? Invariably it does release the first time, but the pupil delays starting the climbing turn until after the second pull. The sequence I teach is: a. Make sure it is safe (collision risk) to turn in the intended direction. b. Look ahead at the cable and pull the release. c. As soon as the cable is seen to release start the climbing turn, and look again to make sure it is safe to continue the turn. It is important that the turn is not started with the rope still attached (this has been known, tug pilots don't like it!). It is also important that the turn is started as soon as the rope is free, it is surprising how close the glider sometimes gets to the rope if the pupil is slow to start the turn. W.J. (Bill) Dean (U.K.). Remove "ic" to reply. "Giganews" wrote in message ... At Dunstable we experimented a few years ago with devices to make the rope fly higher; useful as we are surrounded by fences, hedges and power wires. We found that while these worked, they were not nearly tough enough to withstand being dragged about on the surface of our airfield and were rapidly destroyed after a few backtracks. As a result we abandoned the experiment. The real point about avoiding collisions between the glider and the rope after release is that the glider MUST make a climbing turn immediately after the pilot has ascertained that the rope has been released. As an instructor, I find there is in increasing tendency for students not to do this, probably because their mind-set is established by winch launching, where lowering the nose after release is the normal action. When flying with an aerotow-cleared student for the first time, I work on the worst-case assumption they will push rather than pull after releasing the aerotow. I guard the stick as they release and if they don't make an adequate climbing turn, I take control immediately, make the climbing turn, and make a mental note to mention this item to the student in the post-flight debrief. In this case I would insist on a second aerotow in which I want to see the student demonstrate the correct technique after release before I sign them off. This might seem harsh but it could be a life-saver. David Starer "W.J. (Bill) Dean (U.K.)." wrote in message ... This sounds like bad news to me, it increases the risk that the rope may foul the glider after release. I recall that there was a fatality in New Zealand when the rope had a funnel close to the end, to stabilise it; it also caused the rope to ride high. The glider was a Slingsby Dart, and after release the rope wrapped round a tailplane. Also, in the U.K. there was a fatality to a Bocian flown solo when the rope fouled the glider, I am not sure whether this was after release or due to a bow in the rope. Anything which might cause the rope to get close to the glider after release should be avoided. W.J. (Bill) Dean (U.K.). Remove "ic" to reply. "John Galloway" wrote in message ... I have a vague recollection that a while back someone mentioned in passing that their club used a little drougue chute near the glider end of the aerotow rope to fly the rings higher during approach and landing. Does that ring any bells? If so I would appreciate some information - or did I just imagine it? |
#10
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I don't know the details of the New Zealand accident, I just know that it
did happen; but I am relying on memory without checking. It was a long time ago, the glider was brand new and was being test flown after first assembly. One of the reasons that "high" tow (i.e. above the tug propwash) is always used for launching in the U.K. is to ensure that the rope drops away. Any device on the rope which might make it fly up is bad news. "Low" tow (i.e. below the propwash) is used as a training exercise, and when towing cross-country as distinct to launching. It is much more comfortable when towing level and fast; but we always go to "high" tow to release. At one time Lasham used a light type of rope with a breaking strain of 1,000 lbs. and no weak link, because they wanted to land close to the edge of the field with the rope likely to drag through crops; this rope flew higher than a heavier rope with a weak link on the end, but did not actually fly up. Tost used to make a winch to fit on the tug to wind in the rope after release, I have not checked to see if they still do and I have never seen one. Derek Piggott once told us that there was an operation in the USA where a tug winch was used. The vital thing with any winch system is that it easy for the tug pilot to cut the rope loose without delay if there is a problem. W.J. (Bill) Dean (U.K.). Remove "ic" to reply. "BTIZ" wrote in message news:_MSAb.13915$yf.10724@fed1read01... Why would a rope foul a glider tail plane unless it was a very slack line and back released.. We use a "drag" device, wiffle balls, to help the tow rope "fly higher" than with the weight of the Tost ring better clear the approach end fence, and to keep the rope from "whipping" and tying itself in knots. Of course, I'm told, that the people in OZ fly "low tow", below the prop wash, so on release.. I can see where the rope will "ascend" and possible smack the canopy if released with any slack. I prefer to release at or very slightly above the tow planes altitude, always watching the rope drop away, even with the "drag device". BT "W.J. (Bill) Dean (U.K.)." wrote in message ... This sounds like bad news to me, it increases the risk that the rope may foul the glider after release. I recall that there was a fatality in New Zealand when the rope had a funnel close to the end, to stabilise it; it also caused the rope to ride high. The glider was a Slingsby Dart, and after release the rope wrapped round a tailplane. Also, in the U.K. there was a fatality to a Bocian flown solo when the rope fouled the glider, I am not sure whether this was after release or due to a bow in the rope. Anything which might cause the rope to get close to the glider after release should be avoided. W.J. (Bill) Dean (U.K.). Remove "ic" to reply. "John Galloway" wrote in message ... I have a vague recollection that a while back someone mentioned in passing that their club used a little drougue chute near the glider end of the aerotow rope to fly the rings higher during approach and landing. Does that ring any bells? If so I would appreciate some information - or did I just imagine it? |
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