Stupid Newbie Pattern Question

That was an excellent article.

Thanks very much...


"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...
"Lakeview Bill" said:
When you are flying to a non-towered airport, do you always have to fly
the
pattern, or can you make a straight-in or crosswind approach?

If these are permissible, under what circumstances?

http://www.aopa.org/asf/publications/sa08.pdf (Operations a Non-Towered
Airports, 14 pages)


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

there are instances when that is not correct.. like when the local publish
in the AFD not to fly a pattern on that side for what ever reason and state
to use a right pattern to rwy xx

or when there are parallel runways and you should fly the approach to a
runway without crossing the non landing runway on base leg... that means
don't fly a left pattern and land on Runway 20R, because you crossed Rwy 20L
final course in the process

BT

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Lakeview Bill" wrote in message
...

When you are flying to a non-towered airport, do you always have to fly
the
pattern, or can you make a straight-in or crosswind approach?

If these are permissible, under what circumstances?


The requirement is to make all turns to the left, nothing more.

"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:QS9me.4927$fp.364@fed1read05...

there are instances when that is not correct.. like when the local publish
in the AFD not to fly a pattern on that side for what ever reason and
state to use a right pattern to rwy xx

or when there are parallel runways and you should fly the approach to a
runway without crossing the non landing runway on base leg... that means
don't fly a left pattern and land on Runway 20R, because you crossed Rwy
20L final course in the process


What you're trying to say is that there are locations where right traffic is
required. That is correct. At those locations the requirement is to make
all turns to the right, nothing more.

"Lakeview Bill" wrote in message
...
That was an excellent article.

Thanks very much...

Another article along those lines is this one:

http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182100-1.html


---------------------------------------------------------------------
May 19, 2000
Pelican's Perch #30:
The 45-Degree Zealots

There's not a syllable in the FARs about 45-degree traffic pattern entries.
Nor does the AIM require them. There exists, however, a small-but-vocal
cadre of pilots — and even some FAA inspectors — who consider any other type
of pattern entry (straight-in, crosswind, etc.) to be a felony.

------------------------------------------------------------------



"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...
"Lakeview Bill" said:
When you are flying to a non-towered airport, do you always have to fly
the
pattern, or can you make a straight-in or crosswind approach?

If these are permissible, under what circumstances?

http://www.aopa.org/asf/publications/sa08.pdf (Operations a Non-Towered
Airports, 14 pages)

"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...

Permissible, but not smart if there are other people in the pattern.


Correct, but probably not for the reason you're thinking.



One of my local untowered airports has an ILS, so on a busy day with 5
people in the pattern, there is always one bozo doing straight ins (and
making radio calls that the guys in the pattern don't understand) and
disrupting everybody else.


I thought so. The problem here is the guys in the pattern do not understand
that the "bozos" on final have the right-of-way.



Note to CFIIs: When doing practice approaches to a non-towered airport in
VFR conditions, don't allow you student to make radio calls giving their
position relative to the outer marker, or other IFR jargon. A lot of
private students and even pilots won't know what the heck you are talking
about.


Advisory Circular 90-42F "Traffic Advisory Practices at Airports Without
Operating Control Towers" provides examples of self-announce phraseologies
for various situations. It provides the following for practice instrument
approaches:

"STRAWN TRAFFIC, CESSNA TWO ONE FOUR THREE QUEBEC (NAME-FINAL APPROACH FIX)
INBOUND DESCENDING THROUGH (ALTITUDE) PRACTICE (TYPE) APPROACH RUNWAY THREE
FIVE STRAWN"

In a previous article, "Steven P. McNicoll" said:
"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...
One of my local untowered airports has an ILS, so on a busy day with 5
people in the pattern, there is always one bozo doing straight ins (and
making radio calls that the guys in the pattern don't understand) and
disrupting everybody else.
I thought so. The problem here is the guys in the pattern do not understand
that the "bozos" on final have the right-of-way.

5 miles out on an ILS is not "on final". Final is a part of the pattern,
and unless you fly 5 mile patterns, that's not part of it.

--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
There's going to be no serious problem after this. --Ken Thompson

Advisory Circular 90-42F "Traffic Advisory Practices at Airports Without
Operating Control Towers" provides examples of self-announce phraseologies
for various situations. It provides the following for practice instrument
approaches:

"STRAWN TRAFFIC, CESSNA TWO ONE FOUR THREE QUEBEC (NAME-FINAL APPROACH
FIX) INBOUND DESCENDING THROUGH (ALTITUDE) PRACTICE (TYPE) APPROACH RUNWAY
THREE FIVE STRAWN"

With apologies to the FAA, this is a perfect example of what NOT to say at a
non-towered, uncontrolled airfield.

Example: We have a VOR 36 approach into Iowa City. The VOR is located ~9
miles south of the field, and often-times you will hear "Cessna 123-Tango is
inbound from the VOR at 2500 feet on the VOR 36 approach, low approach
only..."

Primary students, transient pilots, and many VFR pilots have NO idea where
that puts our friend in 123-Tango. He may as well not have announced at
all.

More properly (and what I say when I'm practicing that approach) is "Iowa
City Traffic, Piper N56993 is nine miles south of the field, over the VOR,
inbound for landing on a practice VOR 36 approach..." with subsequent
position reports when I'm 5 miles out and again entering the pattern. (Space
permitting on the freq.)

This helps everyone concerned.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Question their navigation abilities or not, but these people are in the
pattern. Remember, there are student pilots and they don't know which
way anything is. Don't believe me? Do a google search on "landing
pattern computer" and look at the products. Someone is buying these
things.

I don't mean to be snobbish about it, either. When you're learning to
fly, there's a lot of cope with, and orienting onseself with an airport
traffic pattern is not immediately second nature.

That said, I tried making VFR-comprehensible position reports when I
was working on my instrument, and my CFII scolded me for it. He was
right at the time; I had enough work to do to fly the procedure
correctly. However, today, I usually do it anyway.

-- dave j

On 29 May 2005 18:05:42 -0700, wrote:

Question their navigation abilities or not, but these people are in the
pattern. Remember, there are student pilots and they don't know which
way anything is. Don't believe me? Do a google search on "landing
pattern computer" and look at the products. Someone is buying these
things.

Point well taken on student pilots Dave. Student pilots should get the
extra consideration for the learning curve. After all, we all have been
there. My original post only considered pilots, not students.

Even if the student does not know which way would be NW from the airport,
they still should have a conception of 5 miles out as I posted originally.

Even knowing that, the see and avoid on my part would be a little more
critical with the hopes that the student is correctly calling out his legs
on the pattern.

That said, I tried making VFR-comprehensible position reports when I
was working on my instrument, and my CFII scolded me for it. He was
right at the time; I had enough work to do to fly the procedure
correctly. However, today, I usually do it anyway.

Now, my CFI was the opposite. He had me do the call in my original post so
that everybody (students hopefully!) would know my position in relation to
the airport.

At MBO, there are no landmarks for the VOR Alpha approach to report other
then the VOR that's 5 miles out.

Allen

On Mon, 30 May 2005 01:04:54 GMT, in rec.aviation.piloting you wrote:

More properly (and what I say when I'm practicing that approach) is "Iowa
City Traffic, Piper N56993 is nine miles south of the field, over the VOR,
inbound for landing on a practice VOR 36 approach..." with subsequent
position reports when I'm 5 miles out and again entering the pattern. (Space
permitting on the freq.)

Jay,

Your VOR is considerably further then my VOR in MBO. As I posted to
another person, there are no landmarks between the VOR and my airport MBO.
The VOR is 5 miles from the airport.

By the time I cross the only major landmark (Interstate 55), I have already
made my call for the pattern entry, whether it be a 45 or crossing mid
field from the VOR.

So, needless to say, each airport will vary greatly.

Allen