Boeing wins MMA comp

In message , Errol Cavit
writes
Does anyone know the comparative loss rates for the Atlantique vs P3?

'Not many' versus 'Not many', but neither have had to do combat AFAIK.

--
He thinks too much: such men are dangerous.
Julius Caesar I:2

Paul J. Adam MainBoxatjrwlynch[dot]demon{dot}co(.)uk

"Paul J. Adam" wrote in message
...
In message , Errol Cavit
writes
Does anyone know the comparative loss rates for the Atlantique vs P3?

'Not many' versus 'Not many', but neither have had to do combat AFAIK.

At least one P-3 was a combat loss over South Vietnam (enemy ground fire,
IIRC); others have participated in combat operations, to include firing SLAM
missiles during the Kosovo operation.

Brooks

Paul J. Adam wrote:
In message , Errol Cavit
writes
Does anyone know the comparative loss rates for the Atlantique vs P3?

'Not many' versus 'Not many', but neither have had to do combat AFAIK.

Pakistan lost one Atlantic (Atlantique?) to the Indian Air Force in 1999.

I'd still be more concerned about operational loss rates, and losing half of
your engines at low altitude woudl seem to be worrisome. But low-level ops
are less common than they used to be, I understand. Also, Boeing has shown
off the ability of a similar 737 BBJ to climb from sea level on one engine
(I think this was at MMA patrol weights), so an engine failure need not be
catastrophic even down low.

--
Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
"Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when
wrong to be put right." - Senator Carl Schurz, 1872

"Thomas Schoene" wrote in message
link.net...
Also, Boeing has shown
off the ability of a similar 737 BBJ to climb from sea level on one engine
(I think this was at MMA patrol weights), so an engine failure need not
be
catastrophic even down low.

I thought all twin-engined airliners were required to be able to climb out
on one engine.

On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 23:08:11 +0100, "Paul J. Adam" wrote:

In message , Errol Cavit
writes
Does anyone know the comparative loss rates for the Atlantique vs P3?

'Not many' versus 'Not many', but neither have had to do combat AFAIK.

The P-3s first flew combat in Bosnia, firing SLAMs against Serb positions.

They also flew combat in both Gulf Wars.

Al Minyard

The P-3s first flew combat in Bosnia, firing SLAMs against Serb positions.

They also flew combat in both Gulf Wars.

Al Minyard

Okay Al, if they first flew combat in Bosnia, then how did they go back in time
to the first gulf war?

Maybe thats why the Chinese wanted to hold on to that EP-3 for a while, to
discern its time travel capabilities, which we of course stole from the Germans
at some point of course...(chiming in before you know who can)




Ron
PA-31T Cheyenne II
Maharashtra Weather Modification Program
Pune, India

In article ,
362436 (Ron) writes:
The P-3s first flew combat in Bosnia, firing SLAMs against Serb positions.

They also flew combat in both Gulf Wars.

Al Minyard

Okay Al, if they first flew combat in Bosnia, then how did they go back in time
to the first gulf war?

Maybe thats why the Chinese wanted to hold on to that EP-3 for a while, to
discern its time travel capabilities, which we of course stole from the Germans
at some point of course...(chiming in before you know who can)

It's all foolishness anyway - the first P-3 combat missions were in
Viet Nam, as part of Market Time. As somebody pointed out, one was
lost to ground fire. If that isn't combat, what is?

--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster

"Alan Minyard" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 23:08:11 +0100, "Paul J. Adam"
wrote:

In message , Errol Cavit
writes
Does anyone know the comparative loss rates for the Atlantique vs P3?

'Not many' versus 'Not many', but neither have had to do combat AFAIK.

The P-3s first flew combat in Bosnia, firing SLAMs against Serb positions.

Well, P-3s flew combat missions in Vietnam. I don't know off hand
if they ever directly made anything go "boom" but they were in a
position that getting shot at wouldn't have surprised anyone.

They also flew combat in both Gulf Wars.

And Afghanistan.

On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 14:59:15 -0400, (Peter Stickney) wrote:

In article ,
362436 (Ron) writes:
The P-3s first flew combat in Bosnia, firing SLAMs against Serb positions.

They also flew combat in both Gulf Wars.

Al Minyard

Okay Al, if they first flew combat in Bosnia, then how did they go back in time
to the first gulf war?

OOOOPS, I really screwed the pooch on that one!! :-)

Maybe thats why the Chinese wanted to hold on to that EP-3 for a while, to
discern its time travel capabilities, which we of course stole from the Germans
at some point of course...(chiming in before you know who can)

It's all foolishness anyway - the first P-3 combat missions were in
Viet Nam, as part of Market Time. As somebody pointed out, one was
lost to ground fire. If that isn't combat, what is?

Yes, but for some reason they are no considered as such by the USN. They
also flew some very dicey "cold war" missions, but I do not know if they ever
expended any ordnance during those (a lot of buoys got wet)

Al Minyard

"Alan Minyard" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 14:59:15 -0400, (Peter Stickney)
wrote:

In article ,
362436 (Ron) writes:
The P-3s first flew combat in Bosnia, firing SLAMs against Serb
positions.

They also flew combat in both Gulf Wars.

Al Minyard

Okay Al, if they first flew combat in Bosnia, then how did they go back
in time
to the first gulf war?

OOOOPS, I really screwed the pooch on that one!! :-)

Maybe thats why the Chinese wanted to hold on to that EP-3 for a while,
to
discern its time travel capabilities, which we of course stole from the
Germans
at some point of course...(chiming in before you know who can)

It's all foolishness anyway - the first P-3 combat missions were in
Viet Nam, as part of Market Time. As somebody pointed out, one was
lost to ground fire. If that isn't combat, what is?

Yes, but for some reason they are no considered as such by the USN. They
also flew some very dicey "cold war" missions, but I do not know if they
ever
expended any ordnance during those (a lot of buoys got wet)

Eh? Who says they were not considered as combat actions? They were tasked to
patrol areas where it was possible to get shot at, they got shot at, and one
was shot *down*--hard to get much more "combat" than that.

Brooks


Al Minyard