If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#21
|
|||
|
|||
Nope, aircrews use the M9 Beretta. Some SOF aircrews carry the short
version of the M-16. -- Les F-4C(WW),D,E,G(WW)/AC-130A/MC-130E EWO (ret) "Harry Andreas" wrote in message ... In article Dqxhc.33883$fq4.8309@lakeread05, "Bruce W.1" wrote: AFAIK, aircrews use the M11 which is a Sig compact. -- Harry Andreas Engineering raconteur --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.663 / Virus Database: 426 - Release Date: 4/20/2004 |
#22
|
|||
|
|||
On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:38:41 -0400, Bob McKellar
wrote: I took a Navy correspondence course on "Arctic Operations". The advice for shooting a polar bear was to aim for the shoulder, since their skulls are too thick to be easily penetrated. BOAC and the successor portion of BA used to carry a long gun* in the survival pack, until about ten years ago. This was for shooting polar bears after ditching in the Far North. Flight attendants were taught never to let anyone eat the liver, as it has so much vitamin A it's toxic to humans. *I can't remember if it was a rifle or a carbine. It sorta reminded me of some of our regular posters around here. "Some"? Only "some"? Surely you jest. On another note, I'm getting tired of the vitriolic political disputatiousness on Usenet already and it's a long time to November. Particularly the nasty attack stuff. It's unoriginal, it's tedious, and it's irritating. It also says more about the attacker than the attacked. Whatever happened to the concept of reasonable people avoiding unreasonable topics in inappropriate places? Has anyone ever changed their mind because of such an attack (well, except about the manners and morals of the attacker)? Mary -- Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer |
#23
|
|||
|
|||
"DavidG35" wrote:
The AF stopped packing AR-7s in their kits many moons ago (I packed them) the question should be for where you are back packing what are the threats/needs for a weapon? if you want it just for "in case" just get an inexpensive .38 to strap on your hip and get some incendiaries rounds for it. If theres an actual possible threat as far as animals then go with the appropriate shotgun since you would not be shooting too far and it eliminates the problem nicely, even if you miss! Thats my 2 cents, GMAN Did you boys hear about the grizzly that someone shot in, Alaska(?) I think?...bugger weighed around 1800 pounds. Supposed to be the biggest Grizzly in the world. Had eaten two guys before someone shot it with a 7(?)MM rifle. I have horrible pix -- -Gord. |
#24
|
|||
|
|||
|
#25
|
|||
|
|||
"Stephen Harding" wrote in message ... Kevin Brooks wrote: The ol' Black Bear actually accounts for many more attacks against humans in the US than does the Grizzly, which makes sense being as they are more widely distributed and have a larger population. I carried a 12 guage pump Are you certain of that? I've read quite consistently that the black bear is really very slow to attack a human, even when it has cubs. Attacks are extremely rare. Huh? *Fatalities* due to black bear attacks are somewhat rare, but the attacks sure are not. Note: "In late May, a black bear preyed upon hiker Glenda Ann Bradley about 10 miles outside Gatlinburg, Tenn. It was the first recorded black bear fatality in the history of the Great Smoky Mountains National Park. Then, early in July, Canadian biathlete Mary Beth Miller was killed by a black bear outside Quebec City. After that, human-bear conflicts made news all summer: Black bears clawed or bit four Boy Scouts in July at the Philmont Scout Ranch in northeastern New Mexico..."Conflict is increasing all over," said Gary Shelton, who has studied bears for 35 years and written two books considered to be the seminal works on bear aggression. "What's happening is bear attacks are taking place where they haven't before, there's a higher level of fatalities, and there are more deadly attacks by black bears...." Shelton, meanwhile, is preparing a paper for the International Bear Association conference next May that details his theory: Black bears, in certain circumstances, will indeed prey on humans. "There's going to be a slow, steady increase of predatory black bear attacks that will catch bear managers off guard," he said." ( www.bears.org/pipermail/bearfolks/ 2000-October/000447.html ) I can see where you might have the idea that the black bear is a rather docile and non-threatening species; I thought pretty much the same when my dad passed on the bit about more black bear attacks than Grizzly attacks, something he had seen on a TV documentary. A Google will disabuse you of that belief--there have been black bear attack fatalities here in the US (I ran across mention of a documented case in Colorado, where the bear took a timberman out of his cabin, killed him, and fed on him, and another in New Mexico, where an elderly woman was similarly attacked and killed in her cabin, so there are two documented fatalities right there to add to the above mentioned Gatlinburg case, and the Quebec incident you mention below). Checking into this, I also found that there appears to be a growing body of experts who say that the previously taught action for handling a Grizzly attack (curl into a ball and play dead) may be bad-wrong; the punch-in-the-nose might be a better defense. Similarly, I noted that one fellow indicated that properly used pepper spray is effective about 75% of the time--leaving you wondering what the hell you do if you are in that unlucky 25% where it does not work. I think the last I heard, a couple years ago a woman jogging around somewhere in Quebec was killed by a black bear. It was an exceptional event! Not exceptional as far as being an attack, nor is it truly exceptional as being a fatality due to black bear attack. From perusing the chatter from apparently knowledgable folks regarding this matter, it appears that in British Columbia black bear attacks and fatalities have actually outnumbered Grizzly incidents. I guess I should find out more. We've got *plenty* of black bears around here, and they're definitely done with their winter naps. Had my first encounter with one for this year just a few days ago. It growled at my dog, made a short charge towards the dog, and then took off. This would be my 5th encounter with local black bears in about 3 years, and usually, they just skeedadle as fast as possible when they see me. The critters are *everywhere* around here now days! There have been a lot of documented attacks against domestic animals. The bears have apparently begun increasing their population in our area (between D.C. and Richmond), but I have yet to see one around here myself. My parents live up in the Shenandoah Valley, and I have encountered both sign and the actual critters themselves up that way; walking up the trail beside a creek I was going to fish, I once kicked one out of the brush and watched him scurry away--it was so comical I had to laugh outloud. He was running as hard as he could while repeatedly looking back at me with this obviously terrified look about him, trying to see if I was going to chase him. Danged thing took off up the side of the ridge (a pretty steep one) and I swear he was accelerating the whole time. Made me realize if I ever did encounter one who was testy that outrunning him is *not* an option. Brooks SMH |
#26
|
|||
|
|||
"Gord Beaman" wrote in message ... "DavidG35" wrote: The AF stopped packing AR-7s in their kits many moons ago (I packed them) the question should be for where you are back packing what are the threats/needs for a weapon? if you want it just for "in case" just get an inexpensive .38 to strap on your hip and get some incendiaries rounds for it. If theres an actual possible threat as far as animals then go with the appropriate shotgun since you would not be shooting too far and it eliminates the problem nicely, even if you miss! Thats my 2 cents, GMAN Did you boys hear about the grizzly that someone shot in, Alaska(?) I think?...bugger weighed around 1800 pounds. Supposed to be the biggest Grizzly in the world. Had eaten two guys before someone shot it with a 7(?)MM rifle. I have horrible pix If it was a 7mm, it was probably a 7mm Remington Magnum round. And those fellers do get big, don't they? When I went to Alaska, my first stop was to visit a buddy stationed at Wainright flying UH-1V medevac helos. We talked before I flew up there and I told him I was also going to be heading down to the southern area to do some solo fishing. He vetoed my plan to bring my .45 along as my bear-persuader; I'll never forget his words: "Look, you need to bring a *real* gun; I have seen grizzlies out here so big that I won't even fly my Huey down near them..." So I took the 12 ga--and saw zero bears. (But, to give you the Paul Harvey "rest of the story", the following year a lady was killed hiking along a creek I had fished just outside Anchorage, so taking a gun was not an unwise decision). Brooks -- -Gord. |
#27
|
|||
|
|||
In article ,
Bob McKellar wrote: Harry Andreas wrote: In article , (SteveM8597) wrote: I have carried a firearm a time or two while backpacking in grizzly country but not in state and national parks where they are illegal. I hear the situation in some of the CA parks is pretty bad, though. Not what I would consider a survival situation, just common sense. Best bet for bear and cougar defense is actually pepper spray, although I've also carried a .357, especially when hiking with kids. So, pepper spray doesn't work well on kids? If it improves the taste of their food enough that they'll eat it without complaining, then it works just fine. |
#28
|
|||
|
|||
In article ,
Mary Shafer wrote: On another note, I'm getting tired of the vitriolic political disputatiousness on Usenet already and it's a long time to November. Particularly the nasty attack stuff. It's unoriginal, it's tedious, and it's irritating. It also says more about the attacker than the attacked. Whatever happened to the concept of reasonable people avoiding unreasonable topics in inappropriate places? Has anyone ever changed their mind because of such an attack (well, except about the manners and morals of the attacker)? I'm just about this close to shutting off the computer until after November. Make do with books, gardening, and weaving. And then my kids send a flurry of email...almost makes up for the other stuff. |
#29
|
|||
|
|||
"B2431" wrote in message ... From: "Kevin Brooks" But seriously, pepper spray has limited range and is OK for your own personal protection. But if a cat threatens or grabs a kid you need to be able to reach out and touch the cat. Uhmm...I did not say that. I believe that was Harry's posting. The problem is too many people carry sprays rated for humans. If memory serves California has a law that limits the strength of the spray and requires training before purchase. I have the full-stregth stuff, and I'd still rather have a gun. The number I saw was a 75% effective rate against bears; better than nothing, but that still leaves you holding an empty spray can while trying to figure out what to do about that 25-percenter bearing (pun) down on you. I have not seen any documented cases yet where someone armed with a gun, and who shot same-said bear, was subsequently killed. I personally don't carry such a thing and use common sense around bears. Brown bears are a bit laid back to the point of being lazy. Just look at a berry patch one has raided. They leave quite a lot of berries and move on to where they are easier to reach. The Alaskan brown can be quite nasty, from what I have heard. One safe thing to assume about any bear: if they are in your campsite at night be prepared to fight. I hang my food at least 20 feet up and as far out on a limb as is possible. I do this in a tree 10 - 15 yards upwind. Yes, full grown bears can climb trees. I used parachute cord to do that in the Great Smoky Mountain NP--and woke up the next morning to find that field mice had shimmied up the tree, down the cord, and into our food supply. Can't win for losin' sometimes. Brooks Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired |
#30
|
|||
|
|||
In article ,
Stephen Harding writes: Kevin Brooks wrote: The ol' Black Bear actually accounts for many more attacks against humans in the US than does the Grizzly, which makes sense being as they are more widely distributed and have a larger population. I carried a 12 guage pump Are you certain of that? I've read quite consistently that the black bear is really very slow to attack a human, even when it has cubs. Attacks are extremely rare. I think the last I heard, a couple years ago a woman jogging around somewhere in Quebec was killed by a black bear. It was an exceptional event! I guess I should find out more. We've got *plenty* of black bears around here, and they're definitely done with their winter naps. Had my first encounter with one for this year just a few days ago. It growled at my dog, made a short charge towards the dog, and then took off. This would be my 5th encounter with local black bears in about 3 years, and usually, they just skeedadle as fast as possible when they see me. The critters are *everywhere* around here now days! I haven't heard any credible stories of Black Bear attacks either. They're pretty willing to just go about their business and amble along. I think that the Bears (and us) face more danger from the Charging Buick than anything else. That being said, wo do have a lot of bear up here, these days. (IIRC, the census figures put the bear population in New England at the highest level since about 1600. Hmm. given the number of bear sighting out to Durham, it could well be that bears are attracted to Academic environments. I know Skunks are - there's an area of UNH that's just loaded with them. And teh City-raised kids learn pretty quickly that they all respond quite well to "Here, Kitty!" As it happens, I'll be meeting with some of teh Wildlife Studies folks at UNH this weekend. I'll see what they think. -- Pete Stickney A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many bad measures. -- Daniel Webster |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Boeing Boondoggle | Larry Dighera | Military Aviation | 77 | September 15th 04 02:39 AM |
Highest-Ranking Black Air Force General Credits Success to Hard Work | Otis Willie | Military Aviation | 0 | February 11th 04 12:06 AM |
us air force us air force academy us air force bases air force museum us us air force rank us air force reserve adfunk | Jehad Internet | Military Aviation | 0 | February 7th 04 05:24 AM |
USAF = US Amphetamine Fools | RT | Military Aviation | 104 | September 25th 03 03:17 PM |
Air Force announces acquisition management reorganization | Otis Willie | Military Aviation | 0 | August 21st 03 09:16 PM |