The Superior King Tiger

"robert arndt" wrote in message
m...
http://www.achtungpanzer.com/pz5.htm

Better than any mass-produced piece-of-**** Sherman (except the
Firefly British conversion). Russian T-34/85s and JS-2 tanks were even
better than American ones and even they didn't fare well in
engagements with the King Tiger.

Ah, so King Tiger is a TANK. I thought it was a fruit. Largest lemon in the
world, to be precise.

In article , B2431
writes
From: "L'acrobat"


"Krztalizer" wrote in message
...
Robert, you win the award for starting the "Most OT post" today. What's
next?
Planning on posting something on Rec.Arts.Needlepoint about nebelwerfers?

Arndt mode on - THE NATIONAL SOCIALIST NEEDLEPOINT WAS CULTURALLY SUPERIOR
TO ALL OTHER FORMS!!!!!! Arndt mode off.

Invented, no doubt, by the Waffen SS special scientists?
No, it was a Waffen SS field skill. They developed DPM camouflage
clothing by embroidering their own uniforms...

Cheers,
Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

--
Moramarth

And if you want a real test of Russian armour, send them to take
Washington DC and see if *that* passes the giggle test.


I always thought it would be a kick if the USSR ever tried an air
assault or landing on the US. IF they think there's a lot of guns in
the Middle East. . .

"Thomas J. Paladino Jr." wrote in message
...

"John Mullen" wrote in message
t...
"Thomas J. Paladino Jr." wrote in message
...
(snip)

LOL.... nobody is saying that the Leo's are bad tanks. I haven't heard
one
person say that at all. They are fine tanks. German's are great (if
somewhat
overzealous) engineers. What we are saying, however, is that the Leo's
are
totally unproven in combat, and that all final judgements regarding
any
weapons system is contingent upon actual combat experience. The M1
series
has plenty of combat time under it's belt, and has performed, by all
measures, splendidly. It is a combat proven system and is a better
tank
than
the Leopard. It has better armor, excellent targeting systems, and it
fires
a better round. Period. You need to get over it.

As for it being 'Europe's premere MBT', what do you expect? It is
probably
better than the LeClerc (another parade ground princess), and pigs
will
fly
before the protectionist European governments buy big-ticket items
from
the
USA (and they don't need to; their domestic defense industries are
adequate), but you have to understand that the military just isn't a
priority there in Europe. The military is in fact on the bottom of
their
list. So you cannot expect a nation which takes a 'military-last'
attitude
to produce equipment superior to the USA, which actually may need to
use
the
stuff at some point.

Challenger II?

To most of the EU, buying big-ticket items from the Brits is pretty much
the
same as buying from the USA. Great Britian is not a full EU participant,
and
(smartly) doesn't plan to be anytime soon.

But the Challenger II is another fine, battle-proven piece of hardware.


And anyone who says Russian tanks are garbage outta have his ass
shipped out in an M-1A2 and land on the outskirts of Moscow in 50
degree below zero weather with Mils, Migs, and Sukhois flying about
and Russian troops armed with ATGWs.

One tank against the entire russian armed forces? Sure, what the
hell....

But seriously, you are just being an idiot now (moreso). The scenario
you
just described is pretty much EXACTLY what the M1 tank was designed
for.
And
you are also assuming that we would not have achieved air superiority
before
sending our armor in; which we would havem being that it is the US
tactical
doctorine to only send in ground forces after the air is secured. And
the
only bigger joke than the Russian army is the Russian air force (well
maybe
it's tied with their navy). We don't fight wars with just tanks.

No takers?... didn't think so since the M-1A2 is confined to
attacking
puny nations with poor import stripped armor of the FSU crewed by
sand-dwelling conscripts.

LOL... 'confined'... whatever you say. And I'm not so sure that the
modern
Russian tank crews are any better trained than the Iraqi's were. Our
armed
forces are a total and complete overmatch for any other armed force on
the
globe. Period. It's not even close.

Yeah, you are certainly doing a good job in Iraq just now.


Yeah, we're losing tank battles left and right over there.

I said 'armed forces' vs. other 'armed forces', which is what the Ghost of
Hitler (aka Robert Arndt) posted as a hypothetical in the first place. USA
vs. Russia. Or anyone else for that matter; there isn't a country in the
world that can match the US military.

The situation in Iraq is an insurgent force, and quite honestly, if we
weren't so damn concerned about politics and 'collateral damage' we could
have the insurgency put down in 12 hours. If you don't belive that, then
you
are a fool. And quite frankly, it's really only been a very short time
anyway.

I don't agree. I suppose I must be a fool. Check your words.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=insurgent

in·sur·gent (n-sûrjnt)
adj.
1.. Rising in revolt against established authority, especially a
government.
2.. Rebelling against the leadership of a political party.
There is no established authority in Iraq, nor is there any political
leadership, therefore I would not say 'insurgent' is the right word at all.

'A very short time'? Bwah ha ha ha!

So what would qualify as a long time in your world? Over a year seems likea
long time to me, and I am sure to the people in Iraq. 12 hours? My ass.

But, as I said, as a military, the US armed forces are second to none by a
wide margin. You can make all the snide remarks you like, but it won't
change anything. The envy, however, is palpable.

It just may not quite be the time for this accusation. Unless you want to
provoke laughter that is.

Bogged down in Iraq. Publicly exposed as having tortured POWs. Losing what?
2 soldiers a day, against an enemy which was declared defeated a year ago?

I don't see the grounds for envy there, personally.

John

"John Mullen" wrote:
"Thomas J. Paladino Jr." wrote in message

[..]

The situation in Iraq is an insurgent force, and quite honestly, if we
weren't so damn concerned about politics and 'collateral damage' we
could
have the insurgency put down in 12 hours. If you don't belive that, then
you
are a fool. And quite frankly, it's really only been a very short time
anyway.

I don't agree. I suppose I must be a fool. Check your words.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=insurgent

in·sur·gent (n-sûrjnt)
adj.
1.. Rising in revolt against established authority, especially a
government.

Try a different dictionary www.m-w.com

1. a person who revolts against civil authority or an established
government; especially : a rebel not recognized as a belligerent

"a rebel not recognized as a belligerent" and while you might not recognize
it as a civil authority Paul Bremer does meet all of the requirements.

On Sat, 08 May 2004 04:06:39 GMT, Chad Irby wrote:


Then there was the seldom-mentioned Krupp P1000 Rat. One THOUSAND tons.
Two 280mm main guns. Or the P1500 variant with an 800mm mortar(!) and a
couple of 150mm cannons... (I still have trouble believing that they
were really thinking of building something like this, even early in the
war).


Quite, think of all the fist fights at allied airbases, typhoon and jug
pilots going at it hammer and tongs, to try and decide who'd have the
pleasure of plugging it.

8 x 60lb RPs or 8 x HVARS delivered at a suitable angle is really going to
mess up someones day.


greg

--
"vying with Platt for the largest gap
between capability and self perception"

On Sat, 08 May 2004 02:35:18 GMT, "Thomas J. Paladino Jr."
wrote:

First of all, are you insane?

What is with you? Do you sit up at night and wish Hitler had won or
something?


The idiot clearly does, which is why he and his aussie kameraden is
consigned to my sin bin.


greg

--
"vying with Platt for the largest gap
between capability and self perception"

On Sat, 8 May 2004 13:55:58 +0300, "Yama" wrote:




Ah, so King Tiger is a TANK. I thought it was a fruit. Largest lemon in the
world, to be precise.

For a true 'new underwear required' heavy tank of that period .

The JS-7 prototype would be rather hard to be disregard. Thank Insert your
deity here that the russian railway system wasnt upto transporting them.



greg


--
"vying with Platt for the largest gap
between capability and self perception"

In article ,
(Denyav) wrote:

In the eve of the most important paradigm shift in the warfare since the
invention of gun powder its more a liability than an asset.
You might want to use your current military assets agressively before
paradigm
shift (while they are still useful) to streghten your positions,but if your
peer competitor is very good on setting up a "Global Trap" for you and might
force you to waste your very limited resources for nothing.

....except that the one nation in the world with the capability of taking
advantage of that paradigm shift is... well, the US, which is currently
redesigning the entire US military to take that jump.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

In article ,
"L'acrobat" wrote:

"Krztalizer" wrote in message
...
Robert, you win the award for starting the "Most OT post" today.
What's next? Planning on posting something on Rec.Arts.Needlepoint
about nebelwerfers?

Arndt mode on - THE NATIONAL SOCIALIST NEEDLEPOINT WAS CULTURALLY
SUPERIOR TO ALL OTHER FORMS!!!!!! Arndt mode off.

Well, ever since the invention of the entire *art* of needlepoint in
1938 Berlin, the US has done nothing except use the skills imported in
the postwar "Project Latchhook," where many German sewing scientists
were imported to create the unit patches for what became NASA.

Of course, everyone knows about the WWII "Project Silverneedle," an
early attempt at high-speed crosstitching that would have given the
German armed forces a large number of high-durability wall hangings for
their occupation of England and New York.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.