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Trailer tires



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 20th 09, 03:14 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
flying_monkey
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Posts: 50
Default Trailer tires

Gang,

I'm leaving this Friday to pick up a glider that I purchased 1100
miles away. The trailer looks brand new, but is about 12 years old,
as are its tires. The glider and trailer weigh in the vicinity of 950
#. The tire spec from the owner is :
Carlisle Sure Trail ST
ST205/75014 (replaces F78-14ST)
Max Load 1760 lbs @ 50 PSI (actual load will be under 500 lbs)

I plan to buy 2 new tires before the trip, and stop at the first
service station after the pickup and have them mounted. Question is,
what to buy. It does not appear that the trailer has any suspension,
so I think I'd run the tires slightly soft, maybe 25-30 psi. I was
wondering about whether it should be radial or bias ply? Any
particular brands?

Thanks in advance,
Ed

  #2  
Old January 20th 09, 03:27 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
jcarlyle
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Posts: 522
Default Trailer tires

Ed,

My research into this question resulted in me concluding that one
should look at the Duro, Maxxis, Denman (in that order) tire brands.
Goodyear Marathons are variable. Carlisle are not recommended (note
that Carlisle also owns Titan). I chose Duros.

Whatever you choose, make SURE that it is an ST tire - this stands for
Special Trailer. And DO NOT run them at low pressure - run them at
whatever the pressure is that is stamped on the sidewall to get
maximum load carrying ability with minimum heat build up.

As for the radial/bias question, radial tires are *not* recommended
when lateral sway is a problem. However, radials do run cooler, and
they provide a softer ride. I chose radials for my Cobra trailer,
since sway has never been an issue, and there is no suspension.

As for longevity, it's recommended that you replace trailer tires
every 5 years. Although they may look "new", the sun and atmosphere
damage the rubber.

Finally, what kind of glider did you buy?

-John

On Jan 20, 10:14 am, flying_monkey wrote:
Gang,

I'm leaving this Friday to pick up a glider that I purchased 1100
miles away. The trailer looks brand new, but is about 12 years old,
as are its tires. The glider and trailer weigh in the vicinity of 950
#. The tire spec from the owner is :
Carlisle Sure Trail ST
ST205/75014 (replaces F78-14ST)
Max Load 1760 lbs @ 50 PSI (actual load will be under 500 lbs)

I plan to buy 2 new tires before the trip, and stop at the first
service station after the pickup and have them mounted. Question is,
what to buy. It does not appear that the trailer has any suspension,
so I think I'd run the tires slightly soft, maybe 25-30 psi. I was
wondering about whether it should be radial or bias ply? Any
particular brands?

Thanks in advance,
Ed


  #3  
Old January 20th 09, 11:00 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Nigel Pocock
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Posts: 9
Default Trailer tires

At 15:27 20 January 2009, jcarlyle wrote:
Ed,

My research into this question resulted in me concluding that one
should look at the Duro, Maxxis, Denman (in that order) tire brands.
Goodyear Marathons are variable. Carlisle are not recommended (note
that Carlisle also owns Titan). I chose Duros.

Whatever you choose, make SURE that it is an ST tire - this stands for
Special Trailer. And DO NOT run them at low pressure - run them at
whatever the pressure is that is stamped on the sidewall to get
maximum load carrying ability with minimum heat build up.


I would Not do this. The pressure marked on the tyre is the maximum
permitted inflation pressure. This would not allow the tyre to flex and
only the central part of the tyre would be in contact with the road. It
would also bounce all over the place on a rough surface. Inflate to the
reccomended pressure for the trailer. If not available try 35-40psi If the
trailer weighs considerably less than the max tyre load heat build up will
not be a problem.

Nigel

  #4  
Old January 21st 09, 05:34 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell
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Posts: 1,096
Default Trailer tires

jcarlyle wrote:

Whatever you choose, make SURE that it is an ST tire - this stands for
Special Trailer. And DO NOT run them at low pressure - run them at
whatever the pressure is that is stamped on the sidewall to get
maximum load carrying ability with minimum heat build up.


Be aware ST tires have a 60 mph speed rating at the standard pressures.
You can raise the rating to 70 mph if you inflate to required pressure
for this higher speed.


As for the radial/bias question, radial tires are *not* recommended
when lateral sway is a problem.


Cobra delivers all their trailers with radials. Go to the RV dealers and
look at all travel trailers and 5th wheel trailers, and you will find
out they are all riding on radials. That's because radial tires are far
better tires, even for trailers. The bias ply tire's only advantage is
it's a few dollars cheaper.

If you compare a passenger car radial to a bias ply ST trailer tire, you
might be right.

However, radials do run cooler, and
they provide a softer ride.


And they are more road hazard resistant.

I'm leaving this Friday to pick up a glider that I purchased 1100
miles away. The trailer looks brand new, but is about 12 years old,
as are its tires. The glider and trailer weigh in the vicinity of 950
#.


What is in it? It is worth weighing it if you are at all suspicious
about the claimed weight.

Assuming the 950 pounds is right... Unless you are towing this with a
Volkswagen Beetle, it seems unlikely such a light trailer will cause any
problems, regardless of the tires.

The tire spec from the owner is :
Carlisle Sure Trail ST
ST205/75014 (replaces F78-14ST)
Max Load 1760 lbs @ 50 PSI (actual load will be under 500 lbs)


The ST inflation chart show a load rating of 850 pounds at 15 psi! This
tire is serious overkill for the weight of your trailer. Even the
smaller ST175/R13 has a 670 pound rating at 15 psi.

If it were my trailer, I'd just put on passenger car tires with a speed
rating about 20 mph higher than I planned to tow, and a 1000 or so pound
load rating, then use the correct pressure for a 600-700 pound load.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

* Updated! "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* New Jan '08 - sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more

* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org
  #5  
Old January 21st 09, 12:26 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
flying_monkey
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Posts: 50
Default Trailer tires

Eric,

Thanks for the input. I've seen your helpful and enlightening posts
on many subjects in this forum, so I'm certainly paying attention to
your advice. My comments are inline below.

On Jan 21, 12:34*am, Eric Greenwell wrote:
I'm leaving this Friday to pick up a glider that I purchased 1100
miles away. *The trailer looks brand new, but is about 12 years old,
as are its tires. *The glider and trailer weigh in the vicinity of 950
#.


What is in it? It is worth weighing it if you are at all suspicious
about the claimed weight.


What's in it is a Russia AC4C, which weighs 330#. I've seen several
pictures, and am not suspicious of the weight. The owner who I've
talked to on the phone had no doubt of the weight, so I'm assuming he
weighed it at some point.


Assuming the 950 pounds is right... Unless you are towing this with a
Volkswagen Beetle, it seems unlikely such a light trailer will cause any
problems, regardless of the tires.

*The tire spec from the owner is :
Carlisle Sure Trail ST
ST205/75014 (replaces F78-14ST)
Max Load 1760 lbs @ 50 PSI *(actual load will be under 500 lbs)


The ST inflation chart show a load rating of 850 pounds at 15 psi! This
tire is serious overkill for the weight of your trailer. Even the
smaller ST175/R13 has a 670 pound rating at 15 psi.

If it were my trailer, I'd just put on passenger car tires with a speed
rating about 20 mph higher than I planned to tow, and a 1000 or so pound
load rating, then use the correct pressure for a 600-700 pound load.


From my experience towing things, some of which is a glider, that's
about where I was thinking of going. I have to buy the tires tonight,
and unless I see some serious refutation of this idea here today,
that's what I'll do. As far as the tire size, I'll probably try to
get around the same rolling radius, as we've already bought a drop
hitch to set the trailer level with the original tires. I'm sure I
can have the dealer look up the recommended inflation pressure for
that load.

I've only seen some pictures of the trailer, and I was inferring that
it had no suspension because there is probably only about 1-2" of
fender clearance, and in the picture, I can't see that the fenders are
free to move with the tires.

Ed
  #6  
Old January 21st 09, 02:00 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jim Beckman[_2_]
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Posts: 186
Default Trailer tires

At 12:26 21 January 2009, flying_monkey wrote:

I've only seen some pictures of the trailer, and I was inferring that
it had no suspension because there is probably only about 1-2" of
fender clearance, and in the picture, I can't see that the fenders are
free to move with the tires.


It seems unlikely, but still possible, that the trailer suspension
has collapsed. More likely with one of those internal torsion
setups - guys at the field have had trouble with fixing those.
You might want to make sure what the situation is, because
the fix could be expensive.

Jim Beckman

  #7  
Old January 21st 09, 02:48 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
jcarlyle
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Posts: 522
Default Trailer tires

Eric has a point - this is an unusually low weight glider/trailer
combination, and thus warrants a different approach.

For the more typical glider trailer with 15m glider, though, I stick
by my suggestion to use ST radials, as they have sidewalls
specifically designed with trailers in mind. Their sidewalls are
stiffer than a passenger (P) or light truck (LT) tire, are more
flexible when cornering and backing, and are designed for extended,
non-stop towing. Note that LT tires are also designed to carry higher
loads than ST tires, so they're going in the wrong direction for a
glider trailer.

-John

On Jan 21, 12:34 am, Eric Greenwell wrote:

Assuming the 950 pounds is right... Unless you are towing this with a
Volkswagen Beetle, it seems unlikely such a light trailer will cause any
problems, regardless of the tires.

The ST inflation chart show a load rating of 850 pounds at 15 psi! This
tire is serious overkill for the weight of your trailer. Even the
smaller ST175/R13 has a 670 pound rating at 15 psi.

If it were my trailer, I'd just put on passenger car tires with a speed
rating about 20 mph higher than I planned to tow, and a 1000 or so pound
load rating, then use the correct pressure for a 600-700 pound load.

  #8  
Old January 22nd 09, 03:50 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,096
Default Trailer tires

jcarlyle wrote:
Eric has a point - this is an unusually low weight glider/trailer
combination, and thus warrants a different approach.

For the more typical glider trailer with 15m glider, though, I stick
by my suggestion to use ST radials, as they have sidewalls
specifically designed with trailers in mind. Their sidewalls are
stiffer than a passenger (P) or light truck (LT) tire,


According to this page on the Subaru.com website about trailer tires,
the ST is in between the passenger (P) or light truck (LT) tire in
sidewall stiffness.

http://tinyurl.com/9jesg

They also mention ST tires better withstand storage and deterioration
from the elements,including sunlight and ozone, due to the rubber
formulations.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

* Updated! "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* New Jan '08 - sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more

* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org
  #9  
Old January 22nd 09, 12:24 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
flying_monkey
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 50
Default Trailer tires

Well, folks, the die is cast. Last night I bought 2 Carlisle ST
205R75 tires. I'll let you know what happens.

Ed
  #10  
Old January 22nd 09, 03:24 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,096
Default Trailer tires

Eric Greenwell wrote:
jcarlyle wrote:

Whatever you choose, make SURE that it is an ST tire - this stands
for Special Trailer. And DO NOT run them at low pressure - run them
at whatever the pressure is that is stamped on the sidewall to get
maximum load carrying ability with minimum heat build up.


Be aware ST tires have a 60 mph speed rating at the standard
pressures. You can raise the rating to 70 mph if you inflate to
required pressure for this higher speed.


I didn't remember this correctly: According to a Goodyear general
information sheet:

Based on industry standards, if tires with the ST designation are
used at speeds between 66 and 75 mph, it is necessary to increase the
cold inflation pressures by 10 psi above the recommended pressure for
the load.
o Do not exceed the maximum pressure for the wheel.
o If the maximum pressure for the wheel prohibits the increase of air
pressure, then the maximum speed must be restricted to 65 mph.
o The cold inflation pressure must not exceed 10 psi beyond the inflation
specified for the maximum load of the tire.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

* Updated! "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* New Jan '08 - sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more

* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org
 




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