horrible ifr training x-c

Okay, I've been doing this IFR training thing now for a
few months, flying once or twice a week, and it's been
going pretty well. I've not really had any trouble with
the knowledge part (self studied for the written and
got 95%) and have been doing nicely with the skill stuff
as well, getting the holds, ndb approaches, everything.

So on Sunday I have my requisite X-C with my instructor,
and, wham, I feel like I totally unraveled. Just one mistake
after another. Sloppy approaches, forgetting to swtich
tanks until the aileron to keep the plane level is
unmistakable, not identifying stations, and what bothers
me the most, is confidently navigating right down the
center of the wrong airway. How, you ask? Simply by
putting my finger on the map 3/4" from where it should
have been, and then reading off the headings, intersections,
everything incorrectly from that. I'm sure my instructor
knew what was going on, but I only found out when ATC
kept asking me why I was so far off the airway. (these
airways were close enough in distance and angle that my
error only became obvious to radar after many minutes
flying.)

We were safe, the whole time. I was under the hood, we
were on top in VMC enroute, and my instructor knew what was
going on the whole time, but the whole episode was
rather unnerving.

It's just all too easy to see how just a simple mistake
or two can be deadly in the clouds.

So. Anybody else have a bad flight that made them
question their instrument rating worthiness?

-- dave

I'd say it sounded like a great learning opportunity.

Every so often I'd have a training flight that seemed quite awful. Once a
mistake was made, another was soon to follow. In hinsight, I learned from
them, and you will too. Shake it off and your next flight will be great.

"Dave Jacobowitz" wrote in message
om...
Okay, I've been doing this IFR training thing now for a
few months, flying once or twice a week, and it's been
going pretty well. I've not really had any trouble with
the knowledge part (self studied for the written and
got 95%) and have been doing nicely with the skill stuff
as well, getting the holds, ndb approaches, everything.

So on Sunday I have my requisite X-C with my instructor,
and, wham, I feel like I totally unraveled. Just one mistake
after another. Sloppy approaches, forgetting to swtich
tanks until the aileron to keep the plane level is
unmistakable, not identifying stations, and what bothers
me the most, is confidently navigating right down the
center of the wrong airway. How, you ask? Simply by
putting my finger on the map 3/4" from where it should
have been, and then reading off the headings, intersections,
everything incorrectly from that. I'm sure my instructor
knew what was going on, but I only found out when ATC
kept asking me why I was so far off the airway. (these
airways were close enough in distance and angle that my
error only became obvious to radar after many minutes
flying.)

We were safe, the whole time. I was under the hood, we
were on top in VMC enroute, and my instructor knew what was
going on the whole time, but the whole episode was
rather unnerving.

It's just all too easy to see how just a simple mistake
or two can be deadly in the clouds.

So. Anybody else have a bad flight that made them
question their instrument rating worthiness?

-- dave

"Dave Jacobowitz" wrote in message
om...
It's just all too easy to see how just a simple mistake
or two can be deadly in the clouds.

So. Anybody else have a bad flight that made them
question their instrument rating worthiness?

It sounds like a good lesson with a good instructor. It also sounds like
you merely need more practice. As you discovered, doing a good job with the
individual pieces of knowledge and skill doesn't necessarily mean being able
to do it consistently when it's all integrated. It's important during
training to get pushed to the point where you get confused--partly so that
you can learn where that point is, and partly to get experience with
recovering from mistakes. Good luck!

--Gary

Dave Jacobowitz wrote:

Sloppy approaches, forgetting to swtich
tanks until the aileron to keep the plane level is
unmistakable, not identifying stations, and what bothers
me the most, is confidently navigating right down the
center of the wrong airway. How, you ask? Simply by
putting my finger on the map 3/4" from where it should
have been, and then reading off the headings, intersections,
everything incorrectly from that. I'm sure my instructor
knew what was going on, but I only found out when ATC
kept asking me why I was so far off the airway. (these
airways were close enough in distance and angle that my
error only became obvious to radar after many minutes
flying.)

I use a highlighter on the airway, fixes, VOR frequency blocks,
departure and destination (and alternate, where applicable). Any
information on the map along my route of flight, I highlight. I makes it
easier to find quickly.

I talk to myself as I touch the radios to change frequencies, reminding
me to identify after tuning.

Dave:

That's what training is for. I teach computer programming, and making
mistakes are almost a requirement for learning. I, too, made a few on
my long cross-country (even though I declined vectors to final, the
controller queried me as to where I though I was going, and informed me
that I was about to enter Philly airspace). Errors like these should
make you be more attentive to the issue in later flights. I also had an
experience on the way to OSH this summer where I realized that I was not
on the airway (wanted 330 but selected 300 on the OBS). The controller
never questioned my route, but was a bit upset when I realized my error,
and made a 60 degree turn toward the correct radial without telling him.
Another check added to the procedure. Like I said, that's what
training is for.


Dave Jacobowitz wrote:
Okay, I've been doing this IFR training thing now for a
few months, flying once or twice a week, and it's been
going pretty well. I've not really had any trouble with
the knowledge part (self studied for the written and
got 95%) and have been doing nicely with the skill stuff
as well, getting the holds, ndb approaches, everything.

So on Sunday I have my requisite X-C with my instructor,
and, wham, I feel like I totally unraveled. Just one mistake
after another. Sloppy approaches, forgetting to swtich
tanks until the aileron to keep the plane level is
unmistakable, not identifying stations, and what bothers
me the most, is confidently navigating right down the
center of the wrong airway. How, you ask? Simply by
putting my finger on the map 3/4" from where it should
have been, and then reading off the headings, intersections,
everything incorrectly from that. I'm sure my instructor
knew what was going on, but I only found out when ATC
kept asking me why I was so far off the airway. (these
airways were close enough in distance and angle that my
error only became obvious to radar after many minutes
flying.)

We were safe, the whole time. I was under the hood, we
were on top in VMC enroute, and my instructor knew what was
going on the whole time, but the whole episode was
rather unnerving.

It's just all too easy to see how just a simple mistake
or two can be deadly in the clouds.

So. Anybody else have a bad flight that made them
question their instrument rating worthiness?

-- dave


--
Remove "2PLANES" to reply.

Happens to everybody, I'm told, myself included. Hang in there.

These things will happen for a while. Eventually you get to the point where
you can fly the airplane with periodic glances at the panel, then you will
have more time for navigating, checklists ect. It just takes time.

Mike
MU-2

"Dave Jacobowitz" wrote in message
om...
Okay, I've been doing this IFR training thing now for a
few months, flying once or twice a week, and it's been
going pretty well. I've not really had any trouble with
the knowledge part (self studied for the written and
got 95%) and have been doing nicely with the skill stuff
as well, getting the holds, ndb approaches, everything.

So on Sunday I have my requisite X-C with my instructor,
and, wham, I feel like I totally unraveled. Just one mistake
after another. Sloppy approaches, forgetting to swtich
tanks until the aileron to keep the plane level is
unmistakable, not identifying stations, and what bothers
me the most, is confidently navigating right down the
center of the wrong airway. How, you ask? Simply by
putting my finger on the map 3/4" from where it should
have been, and then reading off the headings, intersections,
everything incorrectly from that. I'm sure my instructor
knew what was going on, but I only found out when ATC
kept asking me why I was so far off the airway. (these
airways were close enough in distance and angle that my
error only became obvious to radar after many minutes
flying.)

We were safe, the whole time. I was under the hood, we
were on top in VMC enroute, and my instructor knew what was
going on the whole time, but the whole episode was
rather unnerving.

It's just all too easy to see how just a simple mistake
or two can be deadly in the clouds.

So. Anybody else have a bad flight that made them
question their instrument rating worthiness?

-- dave

I did have an instructor one time, after LAS approach told us to
intercept 394, my instructor started looking at the obs for 394 degrees.

I told it LAS was not giving us a tesat and did not expect us to
substract 360 from 394 and intercept the 14 degree radial. I told him it
was V394, we were to intercept V94, he did not believe me untill I
showed him v394 on the map.

needless to say, he was fired after we got on the ground.

Dave Jacobowitz wrote:

Okay, I've been doing this IFR training thing now for a
few months, flying once or twice a week, and it's been
going pretty well. I've not really had any trouble with
the knowledge part (self studied for the written and
got 95%) and have been doing nicely with the skill stuff
as well, getting the holds, ndb approaches, everything.

So on Sunday I have my requisite X-C with my instructor,
and, wham, I feel like I totally unraveled. Just one mistake
after another. Sloppy approaches, forgetting to swtich
tanks until the aileron to keep the plane level is
unmistakable, not identifying stations, and what bothers
me the most, is confidently navigating right down the
center of the wrong airway. How, you ask? Simply by
putting my finger on the map 3/4" from where it should
have been, and then reading off the headings, intersections,
everything incorrectly from that. I'm sure my instructor
knew what was going on, but I only found out when ATC
kept asking me why I was so far off the airway. (these
airways were close enough in distance and angle that my
error only became obvious to radar after many minutes
flying.)

We were safe, the whole time. I was under the hood, we
were on top in VMC enroute, and my instructor knew what was
going on the whole time, but the whole episode was
rather unnerving.

It's just all too easy to see how just a simple mistake
or two can be deadly in the clouds.

So. Anybody else have a bad flight that made them
question their instrument rating worthiness?

-- dave

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
I did have an instructor one time, after LAS approach told us to
intercept 394, my instructor started looking at the obs for 394 degrees.

I told it LAS was not giving us a tesat and did not expect us to
substract 360 from 394 and intercept the 14 degree radial.

That's a fair assumption.

I told him it
was V394, we were to intercept V94, he did not believe me untill I
showed him v394 on the map.

The controller probably meant V394, as you surmised. Or he might have meant
the 349 radial, or various other possibilities. All you know for sure is
that he didn't say what he meant, so the safest response would be to ask for
clarification, rather than to take your best guess.

--Gary

"Jeff" wrote in message

I told it LAS was not giving us a tesat and did not expect us to
substract 360 from 394 and intercept the 14 degree radial.

Would this be the new math?