What does it cost to own an airplane?

What are the real cost of operating a single engine airplane in today's
economy? I've rented planes over the years since I've been a licensed pilot.
(1976) . Would like to own my own, but wife says it cost too much in
maintenance costs to own our own. I'm thinking along the lines of a Piper
180 of the mid to late 60's. A Cherokee 235 would be great for hauling the
family, but it burns a lot of fuel. 15-17 GPH. Would rather stay below about
12 gallons an hour. Any ideas?
Larry

"Larry D. Cosby" lcosby at knology dot net wrote in message
...
What are the real cost of operating a single engine airplane in today's
economy? I've rented planes over the years since I've been a licensed
pilot. (1976) . Would like to own my own, but wife says it cost too much
in maintenance costs to own our own. I'm thinking along the lines of a
Piper 180 of the mid to late 60's. A Cherokee 235 would be great for
hauling the family, but it burns a lot of fuel. 15-17 GPH. Would rather
stay below about 12 gallons an hour. Any ideas?

Unless you fly very often (and perhaps not even then) renting is the
cheapest way to fly. Like you, I would love to own an airplane, but I would
rather spend my flying dollars actually flying.

Vaughn

"Larry D. Cosby" lcosby at knology dot net wrote in message
...
What are the real cost of operating a single engine airplane in today's
economy? I've rented planes over the years since I've been a licensed
pilot. (1976) . Would like to own my own, but wife says it cost too much
in maintenance costs to own our own. I'm thinking along the lines of a
Piper 180 of the mid to late 60's. A Cherokee 235 would be great for
hauling the family, but it burns a lot of fuel. 15-17 GPH. Would rather
stay below about 12 gallons an hour. Any ideas?

I was considering it briefly, but the fixed costs alone ruled it out, In my
area, a covered tiedown will run $1200/yr. Insurance will vary, but for me
and a fixed gear under 200hp was about $1500/yr. Add at least $1000/yr for
an annual. That's at least $3700/yr to *have* an aircraft. The variable
costs are directly related to the aircraft you buy, so you would have to
figure that out.

I got into a club for $1200/yr dues and $100/hr wet tach time for 2 IFR 182s
and a newer IFR 172. I would have to fly hundreds of hours a yr to justify
buyng.

Larry,

I've owned in partnerships and rented. Renting would be cheaper than
most forms of ownership, but they are really different products. When I
rented, I was always having difficulty with access. I would want to
take a 200 mile trip for the day, and someone would have already
reserved the plane for just one hour, smack in the middle of the day.
With renting, it's often hard to take the plane on a trip, unless you
turn around and come right back.

We have owned a 1978 P28R (Arrow at 140 hr/year) as a partnership for 18
years and have kept close track of costs. We are at $80/hr wet and
$750/mo for dues. We never have a cash call and there is no loan. Tie
down is $50/mo, so this is not luxury, but we keep the plane up. A
Cherokee 180 might be 20% less expensive to own.

Other partnerships will report lower costs, but unless they have minimal
insurance or do the annuals themselves, they are more likely letting the
plane depreciate while fooling themselves that they are flying on the cheap.

If you are pretty tight for money, stay away from owning a six cylinder.
None of them are economical.

I would budget $12k-$20k per year total (100 hours flying) for the types
of plane you mentioned, if you are the sole owner.

Finally, because fixed costs are so high, you've got to fly the heck out
of the plane to bring the amortized hourly cost down. Unless you can
tie flying into your job, the best way to do this is with a partnership.

Good luck!

-John

Larry D. Cosby wrote:
What are the real cost of operating a single engine airplane in today's
economy? I've rented planes over the years since I've been a licensed pilot.
(1976) . Would like to own my own, but wife says it cost too much in
maintenance costs to own our own. I'm thinking along the lines of a Piper
180 of the mid to late 60's. A Cherokee 235 would be great for hauling the
family, but it burns a lot of fuel. 15-17 GPH. Would rather stay below about
12 gallons an hour. Any ideas?
Larry

Larry D. Cosby wrote:
What are the real cost of operating a single engine airplane in today's
economy? I've rented planes over the years since I've been a licensed pilot.
(1976) . Would like to own my own, but wife says it cost too much in
maintenance costs to own our own. I'm thinking along the lines of a Piper
180 of the mid to late 60's. A Cherokee 235 would be great for hauling the
family, but it burns a lot of fuel. 15-17 GPH. Would rather stay below about
12 gallons an hour. Any ideas?
Larry



OK, theses are rough numbers. I owned my plane outright and it was paid
for. So not mortgage. I live in a small N TX town and hangars, when you
can get in, were reasonable. Our airport also kept the fuel margin low
so that helped. I did all annuals as owner assisted and learned
everything inside and out of the aircraft. By regulation I changed my
own oil and did minor work under the supervision of an A&P/IA. With that
said, I calculated I spent roughly $7k-$8k per year to operate the
plane. Oil, gas, hangar, insurance, etc. I flew about 60 hours a year.
My mechanic is also a personal friend, however, very strict on
maintainence. This is general. In 2001 it cost me a lot more due to the
fact that I put in a factory OH Lyc O-360. That was not cheap. But, we
did it our selves and cleaned up a lot of firewall forward mess. The
plane was a '65 Skyhawk. Unfortunately, I wound up with a medical
problem and had to sell it. I got my asking price. So for 12 years I had
inexpensive flying. (all terms are relative) since I got more for it
that I paid.

It will be higher if you live somewhere where you have to pay $500/month
for a hangar, $6.00/gal for 100LL and you take your plane to a mechanic
with the keys and say fix it or annual it, then be ready to pay.

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
Sold
KSWI

Steve wrote:
"Larry D. Cosby" lcosby at knology dot net wrote in message
...
What are the real cost of operating a single engine airplane in today's
economy? I've rented planes over the years since I've been a licensed
pilot. (1976) . Would like to own my own, but wife says it cost too much
in maintenance costs to own our own. I'm thinking along the lines of a
Piper 180 of the mid to late 60's. A Cherokee 235 would be great for
hauling the family, but it burns a lot of fuel. 15-17 GPH. Would rather
stay below about 12 gallons an hour. Any ideas?

I was considering it briefly, but the fixed costs alone ruled it out, In my
area, a covered tiedown will run $1200/yr. Insurance will vary, but for me
and a fixed gear under 200hp was about $1500/yr. Add at least $1000/yr for
an annual. That's at least $3700/yr to *have* an aircraft. The variable
costs are directly related to the aircraft you buy, so you would have to
figure that out.

I got into a club for $1200/yr dues and $100/hr wet tach time for 2 IFR 182s
and a newer IFR 172. I would have to fly hundreds of hours a yr to justify
buyng.



I agree, you have to fly about 140 hours a year to justify a plane and a
financial adviser will suggest that you rent rather than buy. But, there
is something about going out to your hangar, opening the door, and
seeing your airplane. No body else has flown it, left it messy or you
cannot get on the schedule on that first nice day in three weeks because
everyone has beat you to it. Priceless....

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
Sold
KSWI

"Ross" wrote in message
...
I agree, you have to fly about 140 hours a year to justify a plane and a
financial adviser will suggest that you rent rather than buy. But, there
is something about going out to your hangar, opening the door, and seeing
your airplane. No body else has flown it, left it messy or you cannot get
on the schedule on that first nice day in three weeks because everyone has
beat you to it.

Priceless....

It certainly is. Maybe someday, perhaps after I retire, I can justify it. Or
rationalize it, anyway :-)

But a club like I have found, or better yet a small partnership can be the
next best thing. Availability was the main thing I checked before
considering this club. So far, it has not been a problem. We can schedule
out as far as we want, and are allowed a 2 week trip once a year, and we can
go to Mexico.

The main issue is the fixed cost of owning, which is heavily
influenced by where you live, what airports and maintenance facilities
you have accessible to you, and your own skills.

Hangar costs range from $50 to $1200/month. In most climates, having
a hangar will in the long run pay for itself if not too expensive,
with reduced wear and tear on the airplane while it's sitting around.

Insurance cost can be reduced by purchasing a lower cost plane,
getting your hours up, and getting an instrument rating.

Maintenance cost is a little bit like hangar cost - airports with
expensive hangars tend to have expensive shops.

So - if you can locate a small nontowered airport with reasonable
hangar cost, a mechanic who is familiar with your type of plane and
doesn't charge you $2500 just to open it up for the annual, and locate
a clean older airframe, you CAN enjoy ownership. But you do have to
have the resources to handle at least one major repair bill on a used
airframe. For the pre-purchase inspection, search diligently for
evidence of corrosion - this tends to be the biggest driver of major
repair costs.

One other approach on purchase price is to look for airplanes with
recent damage history. There's nothing wrong with these if they have
been properly repaired, and many buyers will not touch them (the
"virgin" complex) so they often sell for significantly less. You will
also get less when you sell it, but if you buy a plane that you can
live with for a number of years, the damage effect wears off over time.

On Jun 30, 9:13*pm, "Steve" wrote:
"Ross" wrote in message

...

I agree, you have to fly about 140 hours a year to justify a plane and a
financial adviser will suggest that you rent rather than buy. But, there
is something about going out to your hangar, opening the door, and seeing
your airplane. No body else has flown it, left it messy or you cannot get
on the schedule on that first nice day in three weeks because everyone has
beat you to it.
Priceless....

It certainly is. Maybe someday, perhaps after I retire, I can justify it. Or
rationalize it, anyway :-)

But a club like I have found, or better yet a small partnership can be the
next best thing. Availability was the main thing I checked before
considering this club. So far, it has not been a problem. We can schedule
out as far as we want, and are allowed a 2 week trip once a year, and we can
go to Mexico.

I was a member of one of the best and oldest clubs around. We have
three very find aircraft and they were well maintained. The prices
were very resonable for both the monthly dues and for flying costs.
There was absolutely no way that I could cost justify owning my own
plane based on the comparison to the club costs.

On the other hand, the flying club was at times the most frustrating
thing that I have ever been involved with. I am a weekend flyer who
doesn't have time because of work to fly during the week. I want the
planes on the weekend or for vacations. I also don't want to have to
plan every flight weeks in advance but would rather be able to go
flying when I feel like it. If I wake up on Sat. morning and the
weather looks great for the weekend, I tell my wife to pack an
overnight bag and we GO! The flying club NEVER afforded me that
opportunity. We had to schedule in advance and hope the weather would
cooperate. If we waited too late, the planes would be booked and more
often than not sit in the damn hangar the entire weekend without
anyone flying them. I lost count of the number of times I would check
the schedule and find all three planes booked only to go out to the
airport and find one or all of them setting in the hangar cold and
unflown.

So what is the best option? It all depends on your type of flying.
If you want availability on a moments notice without having to be
concerned with getting it back in time for someone else who had it
booked but never shows, go with the club. The partnership can be a
lot more attractive for scheduling purposes but will cost you more and
you have to be cautious about who you partner with. Ownership will
put ALL the costs on you and those can be expensive depending on many
different circumstances.

Guess this might be one for the old "If you have to ask...you can't
afford it." type of answer. Some sample expenses are hangar rent
$175-350 per month depending on location. Insurance $1200-$unlimited
depending on aircraft and amount of coverage. Annual inspections will
depend on amount of work being performed but will start at $1500 and
go up from there. Those are just the fixed type costs and don't
include variables such a fuel and routine maintenance costs.

BobR wrote:
On Jun 30, 9:13 pm, "Steve" wrote:
"Ross" wrote in message

...

I agree, you have to fly about 140 hours a year to justify a plane and a
financial adviser will suggest that you rent rather than buy. But, there
is something about going out to your hangar, opening the door, and seeing
your airplane. No body else has flown it, left it messy or you cannot get
on the schedule on that first nice day in three weeks because everyone has
beat you to it.
Priceless....
It certainly is. Maybe someday, perhaps after I retire, I can justify it. Or
rationalize it, anyway :-)

But a club like I have found, or better yet a small partnership can be the
next best thing. Availability was the main thing I checked before
considering this club. So far, it has not been a problem. We can schedule
out as far as we want, and are allowed a 2 week trip once a year, and we can
go to Mexico.

I was a member of one of the best and oldest clubs around. We have
three very find aircraft and they were well maintained. The prices
were very resonable for both the monthly dues and for flying costs.
There was absolutely no way that I could cost justify owning my own
plane based on the comparison to the club costs.

On the other hand, the flying club was at times the most frustrating
thing that I have ever been involved with. I am a weekend flyer who
doesn't have time because of work to fly during the week. I want the
planes on the weekend or for vacations. I also don't want to have to
plan every flight weeks in advance but would rather be able to go
flying when I feel like it. If I wake up on Sat. morning and the
weather looks great for the weekend, I tell my wife to pack an
overnight bag and we GO! The flying club NEVER afforded me that
opportunity. We had to schedule in advance and hope the weather would
cooperate. If we waited too late, the planes would be booked and more
often than not sit in the damn hangar the entire weekend without
anyone flying them. I lost count of the number of times I would check
the schedule and find all three planes booked only to go out to the
airport and find one or all of them setting in the hangar cold and
unflown.

So what is the best option? It all depends on your type of flying.
If you want availability on a moments notice without having to be
concerned with getting it back in time for someone else who had it
booked but never shows, go with the club. The partnership can be a
lot more attractive for scheduling purposes but will cost you more and
you have to be cautious about who you partner with. Ownership will
put ALL the costs on you and those can be expensive depending on many
different circumstances.

Guess this might be one for the old "If you have to ask...you can't
afford it." type of answer. Some sample expenses are hangar rent
$175-350 per month depending on location. Insurance $1200-$unlimited
depending on aircraft and amount of coverage. Annual inspections will
depend on amount of work being performed but will start at $1500 and
go up from there. Those are just the fixed type costs and don't
include variables such a fuel and routine maintenance costs.


I had a '65 Skyhawk with a O-360 turning a C/S prob. It was full IFR
with a KLN-89B. OK, so it was old, but it did the job for my type of
flying. My insurance was ~$690.00/yr, annual usually were around %500,
but I did most of the grunt work. I did have the two MK 12D radios and
audio panel R&R over a three year period and that was about $2000. One
MK12D was upgraded to the D+., hangar was $205/month, but get a little
closer to Dallas, and the price goes way up. So you can see, it really
depends on location, and the type of flying you will be doing. I loved
to have my plane ready and any time. But, I was fortunate at the time to
be able to afford one outright. Kids out of college and a small
inheritance helped.

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
Sold
KSWI