Wind/Solar Electrics ???

RST Engineering wrote:

After much thought and ponderance, I've come to the conclusion that to
electrify the hangar using Pacific Gas & Electricity (PG&E -- Pigs, Goats,
and Elephants) isn't clever. By the time you get them to hang a meter
($5k), trench from the power pole to the end of the row of hangars, conduit
romex to 35 hangars at a cost somewhere around $50k ($1500 per hangar), and
then pay the monthly electric bill, you could buy a hell of a wind/solar
system and perch it on the (flat) hangar roof.

Before I flail about gathering data, has anybody on these ngs actually
installed a design whereby a hefty solar panel charges a hefty battery to
run a hefty inverter? It doesn't have to be absolutely "clean" sinewave
power as all we are running are fluorescent shop lights (about 400 watts
worth), every now and again a small compressor, a small drill press, a small
grinder, but none of these last few at the same time.

My hit on it is that a 2 kW inverter would be more than enough to handle the
AC side of it, and a bank of 12 volt truck batteries would work for the DC
side of it, but there are the problems of parallelling large batteries, how
to combine the outputs of solar cells and wind generators, and a reasonable
source for all this stuff.

There are issues around protecting the solar cells from hail, which we do
get from time to time, battery acidic gases inside a hangar where a very
expensive lump of aluminum is sitting for months on end, sizing the solar
cell and wind generators, and other considerations along these lines.

Comments appreciated.

I have no experience with solar so I can't comment. However, I'm
wondering if you have considered a small gas or diesel powered
generator? It would likely be cheaper initially and less maintance over
time, especially if you don't need the power all of the time.

Matt

I use Trojan T-105 6 volt batteries in my 5th wheel. They are far and
away better than any automotive or deep cycle 12 volt battery for even
several times the price. A friend not far from here has a solar setup
like you are contemplating at his hangar. I also have a solar panel on
my camper. Here's a couple of links to get you started. You don't have
to worry about hail, until it comes down the size of softballs they are
impervious to it. I don't know what problems you mean with paralleling
batteries but as long as all the batteries are the same they charge just
fine. Just make sure you have a charge controller. Mine is a 7 amp
because I only have a 75 watt panel. A few hundred watts and about six
6 volt batteries would take care of you.



http://www.trojan-battery.com/

http://www.solar-electric.com/



RST Engineering wrote:

After much thought and ponderance, I've come to the conclusion that to
electrify the hangar using Pacific Gas & Electricity (PG&E -- Pigs, Goats,
and Elephants) isn't clever. By the time you get them to hang a meter
($5k), trench from the power pole to the end of the row of hangars, conduit
romex to 35 hangars at a cost somewhere around $50k ($1500 per hangar), and
then pay the monthly electric bill, you could buy a hell of a wind/solar
system and perch it on the (flat) hangar roof.

Before I flail about gathering data, has anybody on these ngs actually
installed a design whereby a hefty solar panel charges a hefty battery to
run a hefty inverter? It doesn't have to be absolutely "clean" sinewave
power as all we are running are fluorescent shop lights (about 400 watts
worth), every now and again a small compressor, a small drill press, a small
grinder, but none of these last few at the same time.

My hit on it is that a 2 kW inverter would be more than enough to handle the
AC side of it, and a bank of 12 volt truck batteries would work for the DC
side of it, but there are the problems of parallelling large batteries, how
to combine the outputs of solar cells and wind generators, and a reasonable
source for all this stuff.

There are issues around protecting the solar cells from hail, which we do
get from time to time, battery acidic gases inside a hangar where a very
expensive lump of aluminum is sitting for months on end, sizing the solar
cell and wind generators, and other considerations along these lines.

Comments appreciated.


Jim

RST Engineering wrote:

After much thought and ponderance, I've come to the conclusion that to
electrify the hangar using Pacific Gas & Electricity (PG&E -- Pigs, Goats,
and Elephants) isn't clever. By the time you get them to hang a meter
($5k), trench from the power pole to the end of the row of hangars, conduit
romex to 35 hangars at a cost somewhere around $50k ($1500 per hangar), and
then pay the monthly electric bill, you could buy a hell of a wind/solar
system and perch it on the (flat) hangar roof.

Before I flail about gathering data, has anybody on these ngs actually
installed a design whereby a hefty solar panel charges a hefty battery to
run a hefty inverter? It doesn't have to be absolutely "clean" sinewave
power as all we are running are fluorescent shop lights (about 400 watts
worth), every now and again a small compressor, a small drill press, a small
grinder, but none of these last few at the same time.

My hit on it is that a 2 kW inverter would be more than enough to handle the
AC side of it, and a bank of 12 volt truck batteries would work for the DC
side of it, but there are the problems of parallelling large batteries, how
to combine the outputs of solar cells and wind generators, and a reasonable
source for all this stuff.

There are issues around protecting the solar cells from hail, which we do
get from time to time, battery acidic gases inside a hangar where a very
expensive lump of aluminum is sitting for months on end, sizing the solar
cell and wind generators, and other considerations along these lines.

Comments appreciated.


Jim


First, check on that price again. One thing I learned a while back is,
that while that is THEIR price, if you go to an electrical contractor
and get a quote for the same work for less, they have to match it! You
can save big bucks that way. The only part they HAVE to do is mount and
connect the meter. All the rest you can get your own electrician for.

If you want to go solar, make a single closet like room, with venting
directly outside. Don't use truck batteries, you need deep cycle types.
You still end up doing all the wiring from hangar to hangar, and the
solar cells and batteries aren't cheap. Neither is the inverter. There
might not be as much of a diffence as you would like.

Charlie

It could be done, but you'll spend about $8-9 a watt with no rebates cause your not grid connected.

Vist the homepower news groups. Or www.homepower.com

You'll need a generator backup, diesel preferred.

Calculations for Autonomy, days with out sun.

Calculations for collector plate angle, for winter months.

Possibly a licensed electrician to install. Depends on local codes.

All systems are only %70-74 of their actual panel ratings, So keep this in mind. (its an efficiency thing)

And probably a large 1000's of amp hours battery bank to meet the autonomy specs.
Assuming 8hrs for lighting, 2K @ 8hrs (24v) is 666AH, usually Autonomy is 4-5 days. So your looking at 2000-3000 of AH battery
capacity. (no cheep truck deep cycles here) Plus you'll need to charge them with the PV's ;D.



Cheers


"RST Engineering" wrote in message .. .
After much thought and ponderance, I've come to the conclusion that to
electrify the hangar using Pacific Gas & Electricity (PG&E -- Pigs, Goats,
and Elephants) isn't clever. By the time you get them to hang a meter
($5k), trench from the power pole to the end of the row of hangars, conduit
romex to 35 hangars at a cost somewhere around $50k ($1500 per hangar), and
then pay the monthly electric bill, you could buy a hell of a wind/solar
system and perch it on the (flat) hangar roof.

Before I flail about gathering data, has anybody on these ngs actually
installed a design whereby a hefty solar panel charges a hefty battery to
run a hefty inverter? It doesn't have to be absolutely "clean" sinewave
power as all we are running are fluorescent shop lights (about 400 watts
worth), every now and again a small compressor, a small drill press, a small
grinder, but none of these last few at the same time.

My hit on it is that a 2 kW inverter would be more than enough to handle the
AC side of it, and a bank of 12 volt truck batteries would work for the DC
side of it, but there are the problems of parallelling large batteries, how
to combine the outputs of solar cells and wind generators, and a reasonable
source for all this stuff.

There are issues around protecting the solar cells from hail, which we do
get from time to time, battery acidic gases inside a hangar where a very
expensive lump of aluminum is sitting for months on end, sizing the solar
cell and wind generators, and other considerations along these lines.

Comments appreciated.


Jim

"RST Engineering" wrote in message
.. .

Think about a modest solar system for lighting only and a generator for the
rest. I have 100 watts of solar panels and a small charge controller that
easily runs two 60 watt-equivalent compact fluorescent lamps that have been
lighting up my yard every night for the last several years. The battery bank
for that little solar system doubles as the starting battery for my generator.
One of those pad-mounted generators you see at Home Depot could easily handle
the machine shop tools and would probably only see a few hours of use per month.

To get an idea of solar prices, try he http://www.sunelec.com/index.html

Vaughn

The economics still aren't there for solar in most situations unless PG&E
has a high minimium monthly bill. The place to same money here in Sandpoint
is on sewer and water. The connection fees are high and the minimium bill
is about $40. One well and one leach field could serve numerous hangers.

Mike
MU-2


"RST Engineering" wrote in message
.. .
After much thought and ponderance, I've come to the conclusion that to
electrify the hangar using Pacific Gas & Electricity (PG&E -- Pigs, Goats,
and Elephants) isn't clever. By the time you get them to hang a meter
($5k), trench from the power pole to the end of the row of hangars,
conduit romex to 35 hangars at a cost somewhere around $50k ($1500 per
hangar), and then pay the monthly electric bill, you could buy a hell of a
wind/solar system and perch it on the (flat) hangar roof.

Before I flail about gathering data, has anybody on these ngs actually
installed a design whereby a hefty solar panel charges a hefty battery to
run a hefty inverter? It doesn't have to be absolutely "clean" sinewave
power as all we are running are fluorescent shop lights (about 400 watts
worth), every now and again a small compressor, a small drill press, a
small grinder, but none of these last few at the same time.

My hit on it is that a 2 kW inverter would be more than enough to handle
the AC side of it, and a bank of 12 volt truck batteries would work for
the DC side of it, but there are the problems of parallelling large
batteries, how to combine the outputs of solar cells and wind generators,
and a reasonable source for all this stuff.

There are issues around protecting the solar cells from hail, which we do
get from time to time, battery acidic gases inside a hangar where a very
expensive lump of aluminum is sitting for months on end, sizing the solar
cell and wind generators, and other considerations along these lines.

Comments appreciated.


Jim

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 15:02:56 -0800, "RST Engineering"
wrote:

After much thought and ponderance, I've come to the conclusion that to
electrify the hangar using Pacific Gas & Electricity
snip
My hit on it is that a 2 kW inverter would be more than enough to handle the
AC side of it, and a bank of 12 volt truck batteries would work for the DC
side of it, but there are the problems of parallelling large batteries, how
to combine the outputs of solar cells and wind generators, and a reasonable
source for all this stuff.
snip
Comments appreciated.

Clever idea. Good luck with it.

Are the hangar doors electric? If so - make sure you have enough
surge current capability to get the motor started. I have a 120V /
1850W generator and it did not have enough juice to raise the door
during a power outage.

-Nathan

The hangar doors have the Armstrong opening/closing mechanism.

Jim



"Nathan Young" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 15:02:56 -0800, "RST Engineering"
wrote:

Clever idea. Good luck with it.

Are the hangar doors electric? If so - make sure you have enough
surge current capability to get the motor started. I have a 120V /
1850W generator and it did not have enough juice to raise the door
during a power outage.

-Nathan

Hey Jim,
Check the cruising boat and trawler chat groups... THey have off the
grid down to a science..
Solar cells to keep your battery set charged and a generator for surge
loads... Better yet, is a DC alternator on your truck for charging the
batteries adn doing welding on the side.. see here
http://www.ceniehoff.com/products/al... 2-1&keyword=

denny

Hey Jim,

Try looking through this.

http://www.homepower.com/

My son has provide me some literature on renewable energy and I am
convinced with some up front spending you can survive anywere without
the power grid. You may need a 5KW generator at time when the wind,
solar, etc give out.


-------------
Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI

RST Engineering wrote:
After much thought and ponderance, I've come to the conclusion that to
electrify the hangar using Pacific Gas & Electricity (PG&E -- Pigs, Goats,
and Elephants) isn't clever. By the time you get them to hang a meter
($5k), trench from the power pole to the end of the row of hangars, conduit
romex to 35 hangars at a cost somewhere around $50k ($1500 per hangar), and
then pay the monthly electric bill, you could buy a hell of a wind/solar
system and perch it on the (flat) hangar roof.

Before I flail about gathering data, has anybody on these ngs actually
installed a design whereby a hefty solar panel charges a hefty battery to
run a hefty inverter? It doesn't have to be absolutely "clean" sinewave
power as all we are running are fluorescent shop lights (about 400 watts
worth), every now and again a small compressor, a small drill press, a small
grinder, but none of these last few at the same time.

My hit on it is that a 2 kW inverter would be more than enough to handle the
AC side of it, and a bank of 12 volt truck batteries would work for the DC
side of it, but there are the problems of parallelling large batteries, how
to combine the outputs of solar cells and wind generators, and a reasonable
source for all this stuff.

There are issues around protecting the solar cells from hail, which we do
get from time to time, battery acidic gases inside a hangar where a very
expensive lump of aluminum is sitting for months on end, sizing the solar
cell and wind generators, and other considerations along these lines.

Comments appreciated.


Jim