Best Place to Learn to Fly?

Gregg,

I totally agree with paragraphs 1 and 2, I think you lost your way in 3.
For day VFR pilots, and that's what students are until they start working on
night flying, the only instruments you need are a tacho, altimeter, airspeed
indicator, and a ball. If you have enough time in a machine later, you
don't even need most of those.

To me, most of the stuff inside the cockpit of a 152 is distraction from
learning to feel and fly the machine. You don't learn to drive by staring
at the tacho and speedometer. You look out the window, hear the engine, and
check your speedo every once in a while. Flying ought to be that simple in
the early stages.

Shawn
"gregg" wrote in message
...
ShawnD2112 wrote:


If I had to do it all over again, I'd learn in a Cub or a Taylorcraft at
a
little farm strip in the middle of nowhere, at least until time for my
QXC, then I'd move into a 152 with all the kit and learn how to talk to
people.

Hi Shawn,

I am in the middle of getting my taildragger endorsement - in a 1944 J-3
Cub. This baby was built for the Army and has the birdcage for the back
seat - great visibility. I find it outrageous fun. I got my PPL with 152's
and moved to Warriors after that. But this...so much more fun, more
challenging, in it's own way.

Doing this makes me wonder, at times, if students would be better off
starting out in something like a J-3. I think learning TD's makes me a
much
better pilot..because it's a J-3 with a narrower envelope than even a 152
or a Warrior; because TD flying takes "feel" - especially since you can't
always see what few instruments you have with a CFI in front...and what
few
you have don't include things like Turn and Bank and Artificial Horizons
or
vert speed, etc. so, for example, your eyes have to be on the horizon, in
turns.

All that's a benefit, as I say, but it might extend time to solo out, and
these days people like to progress quickly. So starting students out in
TD's might not be best overall. It might add too many complications at the
start. But oftentimes I wonder if it would be worth it.

--
Saville

Replicas of 15th-19th century nautical navigational instruments:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/backstaffhome.html

Restoration of my 82 year old Herreshoff S-Boat sailboat:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/SBOATrestore.htm

Steambending FAQ with photos:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/Steambend.htm

ShawnD2112 wrote:

Gregg,

I totally agree with paragraphs 1 and 2, I think you lost your way in 3.
For day VFR pilots, and that's what students are until they start working
on night flying, the only instruments you need are a tacho, altimeter,
airspeed
indicator, and a ball. If you have enough time in a machine later, you
don't even need most of those.

To me, most of the stuff inside the cockpit of a 152 is distraction from
learning to feel and fly the machine. You don't learn to drive by staring
at the tacho and speedometer. You look out the window, hear the engine,
and
check your speedo every once in a while. Flying ought to be that simple
in the early stages.

Shawn
"gregg" wrote in message
...
ShawnD2112 wrote:


If I had to do it all over again, I'd learn in a Cub or a Taylorcraft at
a
little farm strip in the middle of nowhere, at least until time for my
QXC, then I'd move into a 152 with all the kit and learn how to talk to
people.

Hi Shawn,

I am in the middle of getting my taildragger endorsement - in a 1944 J-3
Cub. This baby was built for the Army and has the birdcage for the back
seat - great visibility. I find it outrageous fun. I got my PPL with
152's and moved to Warriors after that. But this...so much more fun, more
challenging, in it's own way.

Doing this makes me wonder, at times, if students would be better off
starting out in something like a J-3. I think learning TD's makes me a
much
better pilot..because it's a J-3 with a narrower envelope than even a 152
or a Warrior; because TD flying takes "feel" - especially since you can't
always see what few instruments you have with a CFI in front...and what
few
you have don't include things like Turn and Bank and Artificial Horizons
or
vert speed, etc. so, for example, your eyes have to be on the horizon, in
turns.

All that's a benefit, as I say, but it might extend time to solo out, and
these days people like to progress quickly. So starting students out in
TD's might not be best overall. It might add too many complications at
the start. But oftentimes I wonder if it would be worth it.

Shawn,

"lost my way"? I view it more as not having a finished opinion, and seeing
pluses and minuses to the notion. Paragraphs one and two are sort of
pluses; paragraph 3 are some possible minuses. And there are probably other
considerations I haven't even thought of.

Also, I'm freely mixing the TD aspects of this with the "fewer instruments"
aspects, as well as performance differences between the two types. More a
stream of consciousness, than anything else.

cheers,


--
Saville

Replicas of 15th-19th century nautical navigational instruments:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/backstaffhome.html

Restoration of my 82 year old Herreshoff S-Boat sailboat:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/SBOATrestore.htm

Steambending FAQ with photos:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/Steambend.htm

wrote:
Hi folks,
If you want to learn to fly and have half a year or more to take off
and live anywhere in the USA, where would you go to learn to fly?

All depends on what you're trying to accomplish. Do you want an
instrument, seaplane, or multi rating too? Is this just a
once-in-a-lifetime adventure, or are you going to take these skills
home with you?

The East and West coasts are nice but expensive. $50k/year income won't
go very far if you're living in a major metropolitan area.

Alaska is amazing. If nothing else, go up there and get your floatplane
rating. I did mind with a place called Alaska Float Ratings and it was
phenomenal. Just keep in mind it's very seasonal there, mostly
May-September.

I'm partial to the Northeast US, but that's because I'm from here. The
Portland, Maine area might be worth sniffing around. You've got your
farm strips and class C fields, ocean coast and mountains. The weather
is variable but nicest in the fall, and if you want to get an
instrument rating, you'll get plenty of actual IMC.

Portland itself is a nice small city that is starting to become more
lively, and since you're 25 I figured you might want some social life.
Portland is also pretty accessible to the rest of the Northeast, you
can drive to Boston in about three hours, and NYC in about seven, or of
course fly it. It's far enough out though that the cost of living
hasn't gone insane yet.

OTOH, if I had six months to indulge my wanderlust, I might try to move
around a little, and I would definitely spend some time around the
Rocky Mountain states, Colorado, Wyoming, Idaho, or Montana. I don't
think you can really understand America unless you spend some time out
West.

Best,
-cwk.

Hi everyone. Thanks for the responses. Keep them coming if you can.
Tony, you asked some good questions.

I am in South Texas right on the border at Mexico in a town called
Brownsville. Might have to look that up on the map. Land here is flat
as far as the eye can see and usually windy around 15-20mph at this
time of the year.

At first, I originally said that I'd like to learn at a small airport
so I wouldn't have to worry about THINKING too much (radio, traffic,
etc) like I would at a busy airport. I wanted to focus on the basics,
get the feel of the plane and spend as much time as possible on that.
However, as some of you already pointed out, it may be best to just
jump into a busy airport and start getting accustomed to the radio
chatter, flight congestion, etc.

I've spent enough time in this corrupted dusty booming city and I need
to get out while I can (it's one of those cities that end up swallowing
you if you don't leave while you can. Too many boomerang kids here). I
once went on a Super cub flight with a friend and we had to land at a
small dirt strip in the middle of nowhere due to an engine problem. Bad
location! Landed right into the middle of a drug smuggling operation.
Luckily (or is it unlucky?), my pilot knew one of the guys and he
warned us to get out of there as soon as possible.

Another thing: I am kind of concerned about working with the radio
because I was born with hearing loss and I am afraid I may not be able
to communicate efficiently. I understand the TV and Radio, but whispers
are difficult (and I understand this is part of the medical?). I know
deaf pilots can fly, so at least I can do SOME flying. I'll have to
discuss this with the school, wherever I decide to fly.

Absolutely can't wait to learn! Thanks for all the feedback (and I will
keep lurking and responding when appropriate).

wrote


Another thing: I am kind of concerned about working with the radio
because I was born with hearing loss and I am afraid I may not be able
to communicate efficiently.

I find I hear best of all with headsets on, with all of the extraneous noise
blocked out. It gives me the freedom to turn up my own volume as loud as I
want.

Active noise cancellation might well be a very good thing for you. Most
people's hearing loss is in the upper frequency range, so you have to be
able to use the rest (mid and low range) to hear the communications.
Blocking out all (read most) of those low frequency sounds will clean up
what you are needing (mid and low) to help you make the best of what you
have left.

Being born with hearing loss may have left you with a different kind of loss
than what I have described, so if that is the case, . . . .

"Never mind!" g

wrote)
[snip]
OTOH, if I had six months to indulge my wanderlust, I might try to move
around a little, and I would definitely spend some time around the
Rocky Mountain states, Colorado, Wyoming, Idaho, or Montana. I don't
think you can really understand America unless you spend some time out
West.


Reading this thread ...Midwest really is Fly-Over Land. Not one plug!

Tough to compete with warm winters and mountains - unless 10,000 (sometimes
frozen) lakes sound fun? Boundary Waters Canoe Area? Lake Superior? GREEN
fields? Plus all the Norwegians, Swedes, Germans, Danes, and Finns you can
shake a stick at?

http://www.airandspacemagazine.com/ASM/Mag/Latest.html
Our local airport (ANE) Anoka County-Blaine is on the cover - Class D though
....radio.


Montblack

I think that John has hit the major points here and would also agree with
those who suggest taildraggers but personally would prefer a Citabria 7eca
as you can sit and solo from the front seat, they are honest and spin well
and can do simple loops and rolls. They will teach you to use your feet.
It may take you longer to solo but your total dual time should end up being
about the same as a trike.

To me cost would be a big factor and would suggest that you consider whether
the airport has landing fees which can add up quickly if doing circuits. At
busy airports you may spend significant amounts of time in the holding bay
or on long taxis (google hobbs vs tach time) and your circuits will tend to
be bigger which means fewer landings per hour. Bigger/busier airports may
mean that you must fly some distance to get to the practice area. The other
factor that can add up to a big difference is whether the school charges for
ground briefing time. Some schools have good book and video libraries for
student use. I would also want good internet access while training,
especially if you are doing the ground school by self study, and of course
you need to access r.a.s.

I would favor a small towered airport with a school like John suggests that
also does taildragger and acro. In the final analysis the quality of the
instructors is the most important and as each of us has unique learning
styles you may want to go on a road trip. Start in the cheap and cavu
foothills east of the west coast range and try several different places till
you find one that clicks for you. Consider the total sales taxes. Many
airports have camping or cheap accomodation available near by which can also
make a big difference in the total cost.

Never pay in advance.

Good luck and have fun.

"John Gaquin" wrote in message
...

wrote in message .

Hi folks,
If you want to learn to fly .... .

So, if I could focus all of my time and energy on flying lessons, where
would you go? .

Conduct a search, as you are doing. Use other methods as well, although
at
the moment I don't know quite what to suggest. The net will give you the
broadest reach in the shortest time. The point is this: Find yourself a
small airport in a rural or semi rural area, with a little flight school
thats been around for years, with at least a couple of old coots who have
been flying 45 years or so doing some teaching. Latch on to one of these
guys - they've got more aviation in their blood than you'll ever find in a
book.

Get a place to live, and find some kind of simple job. You apparently
won't
need the money, but you will need something to keep you occupied in your
non-flying time. You shouldn't fly all the time - you need breaks to
allow
the knowledge to settle in. Fly about 3 times a week, and hang around the
field some of the other time, but not all the time. You'll learn a lot
there, too.

The school should have some sort of common area - a lounge, or a front
porch
in nice weather - where the regulars hang around and talk flying, even
when
they're not scheduled. Furniture should be some old overstuffed chairs
and
an old sofa, cast off from someone's house, and there has to be a real
coffeepot - not a machine. Check to see if at least some of the
instructors
hang around and shoot the bull when they're finished, or if they pack up
and
bolt right away. Its easy enough to find an "Aviation Academy" that's all
stainless steel and glass, with a legion of anal 23 year-old instructors
who
can recite the FARs and the POH verbatim and debate airspace arcana all
day.
What you need to find is a flying school, where you can learn to be an
aviator - no one can teach you, they just guide you in the right direction
until it clicks. You have to pick it up yourself. Once you've got that,
you can pick up all the rest either from a short stint at a production
school, or by reading books.

Don't cut yourself short on this. The difference is between absorbing it
or
simply learning it, and the value inherent in the fomer won't be apparent
for several years. Good luck.

If your time is limited, make sure that you go somewhere that has more
than one aircraft and instructor available. However, compare prices.
I like flight schools because of the redundant equipment and flexible
scheduling, but they can be pretty expensive (though maybe cheap to you
now with the U.S. dollar in the tank).

If you are going to use your skills in Europe, I think that it would be
important to develop your radio skills, so learning in a towered
environment would be good. I did my PPL training at a Class C airport
and have never had "mike fright" as a result.

Weather in the U.S. varies hugely, so avoid the north and Great Lakes
area in the winter, and avoid the south in the summer, Florida during
hurricane season. California probably has uniformly the best weather,
but inland CA can be extremely hot in summer and foggy in winter, and
the coastal areas can have days of marine fog. New Mexico/Arizona have
superb fall weather. On the other hand, learning how to make weather
no/go decisions is also an important skill...

On Tue, 24 May 2005 09:43:52 GMT, "private"
wrote:

I would favor a small towered airport with a school like John suggests that
also does taildragger and acro.

Well, that's Chandler AZ.

(Don't try this in the summer, which extends from March through
October.)


-- all the best, Dan Ford

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