Big News -- WAAS GPS is Operational for IFR

Richard Kaplan wrote:
I highly doubt GPS will ever be the only form of navigation available to
pilots -- perhaps they will go with the AOPA plan which is to decommission
only VORs unassociated with instrument approaches.

Are there any? I can't think of a VOR which isn't somehow part of an
instrument approach. Even if not the primary navaid, then some
essential fix along the approach.

Even if the plan is to make GPS the only show in town, this would probably
take 10 to 20 years to accomplish -- could you imagine requiring an IFR
approach GPS in any plane flown IFR?

Yes, absolutely. It's just a single-frequency receiver with a
computer attached to it. Computers are cheap. Given what I can buy a
12-channel handheld GPS for at any camping or boating store, I would
guess the radio part is pretty cheap too. We already require COM
trancievers and transponders. From the point of view of fundamental
construction complexity, it seems likely an approach GPS should be
cheaper to build than either of those. Just a matter of amortizing
the design and certification cost over enough units sold :-)

In article , Scott Moore
wrote:

I'll predict: massive decommissioning around 2010.

probably the single most significant factor in this will be
desire for the frequencies occupied by VORs. The pressure
from aviation groups (even if it were combined) would not
be sufficient to prevent selling off of the bands. For example,
look at what happened with FM stations just below the ILS
frequencies.

--
Bob Noel

"Bob Noel" wrote in message news:ihatessppaamm- For example,
look at what happened with FM stations just below the ILS
frequencies.

They're still there. What are you referring to? As far as I know the FM broadcast band
has been intact for a long time. There are even some low power stuff that shows up down
below 88.1. One of the biggest stations in the area is still on 107.7.

-Ron (who had a station on 88.1 for a while).

"Richard Kaplan" wrote in
:

I am not saying It can't be done or it won't work. It just cannot
work as the only show in town. Having no redundancy flies in the face
of the most basic principle of aviation. And no, ASR is not enough
redundancy in the event of a GPS loss in low IMC requiring an ASR for
every airplane in the sky.



There is no redundancy now. What happens if the weather is 200 ovc & the
localizer goes out? All it takes is one power failure, or one transmitter
to go south, & you're SOL. With GPS, there are multiple satellites, and
you aren't tied to one transmitter like you are with ILS.

--
Regards,

Stan

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...


Are there any? I can't think of a VOR which isn't somehow part of an
instrument approach. Even if not the primary navaid, then some
essential fix along the approach.

Well I can tell you that Phil Boyer was walking around the AOPA Fly-in last
year in June 2002 basically asking how AOPA is doing and what we would like
AOPA to do in advocating for us so I had a discussion with him pretty
similar to this thread and he told me personally that this is AOPA's
position -- or at least it was AOPA's position at that time.


Yes, absolutely. It's just a single-frequency receiver with a
computer attached to it. Computers are cheap. Given what I can buy a

I can buy a digital or analog clock or watch for under $10 just about
anywhere in the U.S.

When I bought a new clock for my airplane last year, the cheapest I could
find was $78 for analog or $400 for digital.

There is probably nothing more ubiquitous or interchangeable in an airplane
than a clock.

Given this, I do not have high hopes for an installed approach-certified IFR
GPS at any price remotely near economic sanity for GA trainers. If we
really do get to a point where an IFR approach GPS is a requirement for IFR
flight, I think the cost of obtaining an instrument rating in a rental
airplane will unfortunately go up considerably and the utility of the rental
fleet will go down considerably because I suspect a lot of flight schools
will decide it is not worth putting an IFR approach GPS into their whole
fleet but instead will convert the lower-end of their fleet into VFR-only
airplanes. That would indeed be a shame.



--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

"Stan Gosnell" wrote in message
...

There is no redundancy now. What happens if the weather is 200 ovc & the
localizer goes out? All it takes is one power failure, or one transmitter

You fly to your alternate where the weather is 600/2 and fly the VOR or NDB
or GPS approach.


--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

"Richard Kaplan" wrote in
:

Given this, I do not have high hopes for an installed
approach-certified IFR GPS at any price remotely near economic sanity
for GA trainers.

And the price for a VOR receiver is sane? It's just a simple radio
receiver, but it costs a whole lot more than what you'll find at WalMart.
Face it, if it's for aviation, it's exhorbitantly expensive. GPS, VOR,
ADF, sunglasses, or flight bag, or anything else.

--
Regards,

Stan

"Richard Kaplan" wrote in
:




"Scott Moore" wrote in message
...

Fine, you have a study. What we need is an unbiased comparision of
the vulnerabilities of GPS to the vunerabilities of VOR. That is all


No, we need an unbiased comparison of the vulnerabilities of a world
with only GPS and ASR vs. a world with GPS, ASR, VOR, NDB, ILS, Loran,
LOC, SDF, LDA, and DME.


It always comes down to money. Always. And keeping obsolete systems
working is hugely expensive, & it won't happen. End of story.

--
Regards,

Stan

"Richard Kaplan" wrote:
I don't care what the backup is -- NDB, Loran, Transponder Landing System,
ILS -- there just has to be some backup available within reasonable range
anywhere in the U.S. if the GPS system should go completely down.

Why does radar not meet that requirement? Is your goal to keep air
traffic moving, or just to get aircraft down on the ground at the
nearest usable airport? If the latter, my guess is radar would be
sufficient.

"Stan Gosnell" wrote in message
...

So what's the difference? It's not possible to jam GPS worldwide, only
locally. Fly somewhere else & land.

If GPS is jammed where you are now, how do you get "there"? Radar
vectors? Dead reckoning?

How do you know in which direction to go to find a usable GPS signal?

Presuming this failure affects every plane in the air except the lucky few
with INS, how do we maintain separation from other airplanes when we lose
GPS while flying in an area below radar coverage?


--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com