737 off runway, Pearson Toronto

"Matt Barrow"
But not, usually, to the pilot, and never to the pilot simply for
declaring an
emergency.


Unless the declared emergency stems from a violation of the FAR's.

Example?

moo

Happy Dog wrote:
Not quite. If there's an accident with injuries

An accident with injuries isn't an incident. You knew that, right?


Mea culpa. You are correct.


In the air, your first concern should be to get back on the ground ASAP.

C'mon. *Think*.


I am thinking. I'm thinking I'd rather not be responsible for a preventible
death just because I was reluctant to declare an emergency. Or are you thinking
that your first concern is flying the airplane? I consider that an understood.

If that is your thinking, you're just being argumentative and contributing
nothing here. If that isn't it, please enlighten me.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote in message
. com...
The fellow may have been having a heart attack or a stroke... In the air,
your first concern should be to get back on the ground ASAP. That will
probably require priority treatment from ATC, so declare your emergency
and get down.

Yup. It's also a good idea, in the event of a passenger medical emergency,
to request having medical personnel on hand when you land.

--Gary

Thomas Borchert wrote:
Kev,

For example, remember Swiss Air 111 that caught fire and then crashed
off Newfoundland before they could land? (Basically because they
followed the book and circled dumping fuel... so as not to be over
landing weight... but the time wasted doing that killed them all.)

Not so. The accident investigation showed that the time wouldn't have
been sufficient even when going for a landing immediately. That doesn't
mean to say they couldn't/shouldn't have acted differently.

Frank, Tom, thank you for the update and correction. I should've
looked up the accident report before adding that bit of melodrama.

Did it turn out that it was the entertainment system wiring? I had
almost gone to work for a company that designed them, and sometimes
wondered how their engineers felt later on. shudder

Best, Kev

Kev,

Did it turn out that it was the entertainment system wiring?


I think so. Oh, and while in this case it may have been too late, I
still agree with you that less "by the book" and more quick-and-dirty
makes ssense in these kinds of emergencies. OTOH, hindsight is 20-20.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Matt Barrow wrote:

But not, usually, to the pilot, and never to the pilot simply for
declaring an emergency.

Unless the declared emergency stems from a violation of the FAR's.

In that case, the pilot has not simply declared an emergency. The pilot has
violated FARs.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:EQqIe.14414$2y2.11236@trndny02...
Matt Barrow wrote:

But not, usually, to the pilot, and never to the pilot simply for
declaring an emergency.

Unless the declared emergency stems from a violation of the FAR's.

In that case, the pilot has not simply declared an emergency. The pilot
has
violated FARs.

So every time a pilot violates the FAR's they must file a report?

Matt Barrow wrote:
"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:EQqIe.14414$2y2.11236@trndny02...
Matt Barrow wrote:

But not, usually, to the pilot, and never to the pilot simply for
declaring an emergency.

Unless the declared emergency stems from a violation of the FAR's.

In that case, the pilot has not simply declared an emergency. The pilot
has violated FARs.

So every time a pilot violates the FAR's they must file a report?

I can come up with four different scenarios:

1) You clip class D without comms. You violated a FAR, but unless the
Administrator (or rep) asks for an incident report, nothing is
required.

2) You have a control fail just after takeoff from a towered airport,
so (with or without declaring an emergency over the air) you turn back
and land without clearance. You violated a FAR, but your emergency
authority allows you to to deviate as necessary for the safe completion
of the flight. A report is required for the control failure, but not
required for the landing.

3) Same scenario as (2) (you have a major oil leak on takeoff and land
again without clearance, say), but you were a student pilot and had a
passenger. Oops. The emergency let you land without clearance, but
you had (unrelated to the emergency) also busted a FAR. Report will
probably be requested on just the FAR bust grin.

4) You overloaded your aircraft and/or in flight realized your W&B was
so messed up that you had little control, and had to declare an
emergency to land as quickly as possible. Ooops again. The FAR bust
_caused_ the emergency to begin with.

Scenario 4 is the worst case, of course. If breaking a FAR causes the
emergency, your emergency powers can't protect you... nor can an ASRS
form, if you deliberately overloaded the aircraft. (Let's say the
passengers lied to you about their weight... that would mean you didn't
deliberately screw up.)

Cheers, Kev

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
Not quite. If there's an accident with injuries

An accident with injuries isn't an incident. You knew that, right?


Mea culpa. You are correct.


In the air, your first concern should be to get back on the ground ASAP.

C'mon. *Think*.

I am thinking. I'm thinking I'd rather not be responsible for a
preventible death just because I was reluctant to declare an emergency.
Or are you thinking that your first concern is flying the airplane? I
consider that an understood.

That and, next, assessing the emergency and taking appropriate action. That
might mean flying to an airport, right? :-) Seriously, though, I can think
of a number of scenarios where getting on the ground ASAP is not the correct
decision. So can you...

moo

Happy Dog wrote:
That and, next, assessing the emergency and taking appropriate action. That
might mean flying to an airport, right? :-) Seriously, though, I can think
of a number of scenarios where getting on the ground ASAP is not the correct
decision. So can you...


I'm not suggesting an off-airport landing. The whole point of getting down
quickly is to get the passenger to an ambulance ASAP. That means trying to land
at an airport big enough to have a hospital nearby.

As for assessing, didn't he already say the fellow went lights out for more than
a minute? How much more information do you need to make a decision? I know I
heard enough.


--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE