737 off runway, Pearson Toronto

"Bob Gardner" wrote in
:

I have no experience in airline jets other than Boeing simulators, but
my corporate jet experience tells me that the stick pusher won't let you
"stall and fall out of the sky." Always willing to be proven wrong.

Bob Gardner

Miles O'Brien is now clearly backing off the wind shear/micro burst
theory. That's very good of him to do.

I just don't understand why he even went down that route. The
initial reports were that the plane skidded off the end of the
runway, so why speculate about wind shear/stalling/micro bursts?

Also, a press conference just wrapped up. Some numbers, but not
confirmed a

297 passengers
12 crew
14 injuries
0 fatalities

Good news considering the fire. According to passengers the fire
was small at first and in the tail of the plane and everyone got
off quickly.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism

Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Blog: http://www.skywise711.com/Blog

Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

In article ,
says...


I don't have access to TV here, they might be saying something different on
there.
The news on the website was saying there was lighting in the area, but
nothing about the plane getting struck. (I will check again)

Dave



Dave - Hello Dave - Wake up Dave!
I'm not interested in commenting on airline accidents in the early hours,
before at least the initial facts are in - but to comment disparagingly on
what the news are or are not reporting, then to come back and say you don't
have TV?

Whatever, get a life.

"Greg Farris" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...


I don't have access to TV here, they might be saying something different
on
there.
The news on the website was saying there was lighting in the area, but
nothing about the plane getting struck. (I will check again)

Dave



Dave - Hello Dave - Wake up Dave!
I'm not interested in commenting on airline accidents in the early hours,
before at least the initial facts are in - but to comment disparagingly
on
what the news are or are not reporting, then to come back and say you
don't
have TV?

In article ,
says...


Whatever, get a life.


Get a TV - or stop whining about what the TV is or isn't reporting!

Dave wrote:

Reports are that it was struck by lighting AFTER it landed, and lost all
controls.

Ah, one of the perils of fly by wire...

Matt

Greg Farris wrote in message ...
In article ,
says...


I don't have access to TV here, they might be saying something different
on
there.
The news on the website was saying there was lighting in the area, but
nothing about the plane getting struck. (I will check again)

Dave



Dave - Hello Dave - Wake up Dave!
I'm not interested in commenting on airline accidents in the early hours,
before at least the initial facts are in - but to comment disparagingly
on
what the news are or are not reporting, then to come back and say you don't
have TV?

Dave originally said "news agencies." Maybe he has access to this thing
called the internet.

- Rick

It was really hot today (like most of the summer so far) and then a brief
rain fall and grayed sky around the time of the incident so lighting must of
been a factor. Would say though that if Air France made the landing going
the opposite direction (landing going eastwards verse the western landing it
did) it could of been much worst as there is a small regional terminal and
then higway 427. Wonder if they had radioed declearing an emergency and was
directed going west. Thank God everyone is safe.


"Skywise" wrote in message
...
Skywise wrote in news:11evmba39sl7ue3
@corp.supernews.com:

CNN showing a Luftanasa 737 skidded off the end of the
runway at Peasron (sp?) airport, Toronto Canada. The plane
is on fire but appears intact. Heavy thunderstorms reported
in the area.

Brian

Correction. Plane belongs to Air France.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism

Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Blog: http://www.skywise711.com/Blog

Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

Dave wrote:
Reports are that it was struck by lighting AFTER it landed, and lost all
controls.

Now the plane's passengers are saying that the interior lights went out
about a minute or two before landing, but the landing itself was okay.
Wonder if they lost a couple of electrical busses.

Changing topic, I was just listening to the Toronto ATC archive. A
couple of minutes afer the crash, and finding out the Toronto airport
was closed, a KLM flight from Amsterdam used the P-word... it went
close to this:

KLM: Pan, Pan Pan. KLM 691. We have a low fuel emergency for a
diversion to Syracuse. Declaring a low fuel emergency. KLM 691.

ATC: KLM 691 roger, uh, check that you're declaring a fuel emergency.
Are you able to go to Hamilton Airport? What's the minumum length of
runway I can have, uh, maybe in case we have closer ones.

KLM: We need a left turn to Syracuse, we got it lined up, and we think
we have just enough fuel to go to Syracuse, and land there with 30
minutes.

ATC: KLM 691, roger, direct to Syracuse, maintain 5000.

Kev

Local coverage of it he http://tinyurl.com/7cztx

The Professor (just passing through)

That was interesting. Hearing the use of "pan pan" makes me wonder, "is
there a hassle factor involved with diverting internationally (for the
scheduleds)"? I can almost hear the crew, coming up with a solution to
their low fuel then, seeing it required a US landing, deciding to add
the "pan pan" to their low fuel to ensure desired handling.

The alternative would have been something like, "KLM: we have a low
fuel emergency, request diversion for immediate landing", "ATC: we can
take you to Ottawa", "KLM: ahhh, that looks like it would require some
deviation around this cell, how about Syracuse?","ATC: we can give you
direct to Hamilton", "KLM: too short, It think we need Syracuse" etc.

I thought it was a very appropriate use of "pan" given the other
emergency activity and the nature of their own.

Kev wrote:
Changing topic, I was just listening to the Toronto ATC archive. A
couple of minutes afer the crash, and finding out the Toronto airport
was closed, a KLM flight from Amsterdam used the P-word... it went
close to this:

KLM: Pan, Pan Pan. KLM 691. We have a low fuel emergency for a
diversion to Syracuse. Declaring a low fuel emergency. KLM 691.

ATC: KLM 691 roger, uh, check that you're declaring a fuel emergency.
Are you able to go to Hamilton Airport? What's the minumum length of
runway I can have, uh, maybe in case we have closer ones.

KLM: We need a left turn to Syracuse, we got it lined up, and we think
we have just enough fuel to go to Syracuse, and land there with 30
minutes.

ATC: KLM 691, roger, direct to Syracuse, maintain 5000.

Kev