Report Leaving Assigned Altitude?

Well, lets ask the controllers here (rather than AIM, which we all have access
to). On a cruise clearance, for example Cruise 6000, you observe (mode C) an
aircraft has descended from 6000 to 4000. There is another aircraft which
could use the 6000 altitude. You've received no communications from the
aircraft on a cruise (except the acknowlegement of the clearance). Do you
consider the 6000 foot alititude vacant?

Same question, but the cruise aircraft has reported descending to 4000. Has
his report of a descent vacated the 6000 foot altitude? (no bobbing back up)

Same question, but instead of a cruise question, it's a "descend at pilot's
discretion to 2000". The pilot acknowleges the clearance, and later is
observed at 4000 feet, having not reported the descent.

Same question, same airplane, but in this case the pilot reported descending
from 6000 to 4000.

So, in which cases does 6000 no longer belong to the pilot, in your eyes and
actions?

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

"Teacherjh" wrote in message
...

Well, lets ask the controllers here (rather than AIM, which we all have
access to). On a cruise clearance, for example Cruise 6000, you
observe (mode C) an aircraft has descended from 6000 to 4000.
There is another aircraft which could use the 6000 altitude. You've
received no communications from the aircraft on a cruise (except the
acknowlegement of the clearance). Do you consider the 6000 foot
alititude vacant?


No, the aircraft is entitled to climb back to 6000 if so desired. 6000
becomes available when the aircraft verbally reports leaving 5000.



Same question, but the cruise aircraft has reported descending to 4000.
Has his report of a descent vacated the 6000 foot altitude? (no
bobbing back up)


No, a pilot may not return to an altitude that he's verbally reported
leaving, verbally reporting that he's descending to an intermediate altitude
does nothing.



Same question, but instead of a cruise question, it's a "descend at
pilot's
discretion to 2000". The pilot acknowleges the clearance, and later is
observed at 4000 feet, having not reported the descent.


5000 and 6000 are now available for other aircraft.



Same question, same airplane, but in this case the pilot reported
descending from 6000 to 4000.


No change.

"Teacherjh" wrote in message =
...
Well, lets ask the controllers here (rather than AIM, which we all =
have access
to). On a cruise clearance, for example Cruise 6000, you observe =
(mode C) an
aircraft has descended from 6000 to 4000. There is another aircraft =
which
could use the 6000 altitude. You've received no communications from =
the
aircraft on a cruise (except the acknowlegement of the clearance). Do =
you
consider the 6000 foot alititude vacant?
=20
Same question, but the cruise aircraft has reported descending to =
4000. Has
his report of a descent vacated the 6000 foot altitude? (no bobbing =
back up)
=20
Same question, but instead of a cruise question, it's a "descend at =
pilot's
discretion to 2000". The pilot acknowleges the clearance, and later =
is
observed at 4000 feet, having not reported the descent.
=20
Same question, same airplane, but in this case the pilot reported =
descending
from 6000 to 4000.
=20
So, in which cases does 6000 no longer belong to the pilot, in your =
eyes and
actions?
=20
Jose
=20

In my experience, if the controller needs an altitude I will be =
vacating,
I'll either not get a Pilot's Discretion descent, or else I'll get a =
request to
"Report leaving altitude or flight level".
I like it that way. There's less opportunity to misconstrue intentions.
---JRC---

"John Clonts" wrote in message
...

1) "N7NZ, cleared direct BMQ cruise 7000". Do I report subsequent
descents?
E.g. "leaving 7000 descending 5000"? Then later "leaving 5000 descending
2000"?

2) Its VMC and I'm IFR to Temple, level at 5000. At 25 miles out I report
Temple in sight. "N7NZ cleared visual approach to Temple, remain this
frequency til you're closer in". At this point I may descend at will,
right? When I do decide to descend, do I report leaving 5000?

3) I'm level at 7000. "N7NZ, descend 3000 pilots discretion". Do I
report
my descent? Can I level off at an intermediate altitude, and if so, do I
eventually report leaving that altitude?E.g. "leaving 7000 descending
5000"?
Then later "leaving 5000 descending 3000"?

Please read the above "do I" as "am I required to". In my (small) IFR
experience to this point I have made the reports in many/all the above
cases, so I'm now trying to confirm which of them are unnecessary...


Are you in radar contact and do you have Mode C altitude reporting
equipment? If yes to both of those, then you're already reporting.

"John Clonts" wrote in
:

1) "N7NZ, cleared direct BMQ cruise 7000". Do I report
subsequent descents? E.g. "leaving 7000 descending 5000"?
Then later "leaving 5000 descending 2000"?

No. The cruise clearance gives you everything between 7000' and
the surface. It's good practice to report leaving an altitude,
so ATC can use it, but it's not required. Once you report
leaving an altitude on a cruise clearance, you can't go back to
it.

2) Its VMC and I'm IFR to Temple, level at 5000. At 25
miles out I report Temple in sight. "N7NZ cleared visual
approach to Temple, remain this frequency til you're closer
in". At this point I may descend at will, right? When I
do decide to descend, do I report leaving 5000?

No. An approach clearance clears you for any altitude required
by the approach, including landing. A visual approach clearance
clears you to the ground.

3) I'm level at 7000. "N7NZ, descend 3000 pilots
discretion". Do I report my descent? Can I level off at
an intermediate altitude, and if so, do I eventually report
leaving that altitude?E.g. "leaving 7000 descending 5000"?
Then later "leaving 5000 descending 3000"?

You can descend from 7000' to 3000' whenever you're ready, but
you need to report when you do. You would report leaving 7000'
for 3000', and shouldn't stop at intermediate altitudes.

--
Regards,

Stan

Stan Gosnell wrote:



No. An approach clearance clears you for any altitude required
by the approach, including landing. A visual approach clearance
clears you to the ground.

An approach clearnace does not clear you to land. The tower has to
clear you to land, usually directly but they could relay a landing
clearance through approach control.

If you're speaking of a non-towered airport, landing clearances are
irrelevant.

Stan Gosnell wrote:



No. An approach clearance clears you for any altitude required
by the approach, including landing. A visual approach clearance
clears you to the ground.


In that respect there is no difference between a visual approach and any
other type of approach.

Newps wrote in
news:qpl3c.160015$4o.202529@attbi_s52:

No. An approach clearance clears you for any altitude
required by the approach, including landing. A visual
approach clearance clears you to the ground.


In that respect there is no difference between a visual
approach and any other type of approach.

Yes, the way I said it was redundant.

--
Regards,

Stan

"Stan Gosnell" me@work wrote in message
...

You can descend from 7000' to 3000' whenever you're ready, but
you need to report when you do. You would report leaving 7000'

Where is it written that any report is needed other than the initial
acknowledgment of the pilot discretion clearance? I would maintain that
acknowledging the pilot discretion clearance satisfies the requirement to
report leaving the altitude. In fact, I have on a number of occasions done
just that and not reported to ATC when I began a pilot-discretion descent,
with no complaint from anyone.

Has anyone here ever acknowledged a pilot discretion clearance and then
started a descent at some later point and received a complaint from ATC that
a second report was needed prior to beginning a descent?


--
--------------------
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

with no complaint from anyone.

I suspect the lack of complaint from ATC is no indication that ATC is
pleased with a pilot's behavior. Probably for the same reason that I
no longer chastise people for improper pattern behavior: The supply
of knuckleheads is inexhaustable, and trying to educate them is like
trying to drain the ocean using a thimble.