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#31
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Downdraft at 12,000 feet
"Stefan" wrote in message . .. James Robinson schrieb: Can somebody explain what he did right/wrong? His mistake was to go there in the first place. I've been taught an iron rule: Never ever fly on top of a closed cloud layer over mountains in a light single. Because if you hit downdraft over mountains, you will *not* be able to hold altitude. With a closed layer this means that you will find yourself between mountains in the soup. (Which means that most probably you won't be able to tell anybody about it afterwards). A closed layer over mountains is a definitve no-go situation for a light single, unless you like to gamble. For the same reason, I would think the same would apply for a light twin. Danny Deger |
#32
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Downdraft at 12,000 feet
No certificated GA plane is unstable in roll. Uh, even an Archer is unstable in roll. I went out and tried it myself. Are you using a different definition of "unstable"? Here's what I did: I went up on a calm night, trimmed for straight and level flight, and let go of the controls. The plane flew nicely for about a minute or three, by which time the aircraft had gotten itself into about a half standard rate turn, which kept tightening. It took a good few minutes to get to that point, but it did so every time (and not always in the same direction). So, on the larger scale, it is unstable in roll, albeit not =very= unstable in roll. Small excursions lead to larger excursions. It does require active attention to fly it. Do you mean something else? Jose -- He who laughs, lasts. for Email, make the obvious change in the address. |
#33
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Downdraft at 12,000 feet
Now, just because there is not
enough water in the air to see the wave does not mean that they don't exist... just that you can not see them. Does the presence of water intensify the wave, inasmuch as the evaporation and condensation of water is also an energy pump? Jose -- He who laughs, lasts. for Email, make the obvious change in the address. |
#34
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Downdraft at 12,000 feet
Danny Deger wrote: No certificated GA plane is unstable in roll. Go rent one and see for yourself. I own one. If you put it in a 30 degree bank and let go of the stick, the roll will increase until you are in a death spiral. Yours was rigged wrong. When put in a coordinated bank it will stay in that bank. That is why so many Bonanzas end up in one compared with other airplanes. As far as I know, all Cessnas are stable in roll, i.e. without pilot intervention they roll back to wings level. I had a 182 for seven years and they will act the same as my Bonanza. Put them in a coordinated bank and it will stay there. |
#35
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Downdraft at 12,000 feet
"Jose" wrote in message . net... No certificated GA plane is unstable in roll. Uh, even an Archer is unstable in roll. I went out and tried it myself. Are you using a different definition of "unstable"? Here's what I did: I went up on a calm night, trimmed for straight and level flight, and let go of the controls. The plane flew nicely for about a minute or three, by which time the aircraft had gotten itself into about a half standard rate turn, which kept tightening. It took a good few minutes to get to that point, but it did so every time (and not always in the same direction). So, on the larger scale, it is unstable in roll, albeit not =very= unstable in roll. Small excursions lead to larger excursions. It does require active attention to fly it. I agree 100% with what you are saying about instability. In my C35 Bonanza, the roll off would happen fairly fast. Danny Deger |
#36
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Downdraft at 12,000 feet
"James Robinson" wrote in message . .. Pilot reported heavy downdraft over Lancaster, CA, resulting in crash. http://www.orovillemr.com/news/chico/ci_4917367 Can somebody explain what he did right/wrong? Are there any more details on how he "crashed" an airplane that was apparently out of control, but didn't die? He must have had control of the airplane when it hit the ground, but if he had control he wouldn't have hit the ground. Danny Deger |
#37
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Downdraft at 12,000 feet
Jer wrote : So, over 25 KN winds aloft, I choose to stay FAR away from the rotors... and WATCH where the waves set-up, as the rotors are under where the waves peak. Now, just because there is not enough water in the air to see the wave does not mean that they don't exist... just that you can not see them. That's the trouble with rotors. Even when there is enough moisture to show standing lenticular clouds over the peaks, you may have no indication of where the rotor is on the downwind side of the range. The only rotor I ever flew into was just after coming out of a pass in the Alaska range. There were lenticulars over the peaks, so I knew there would be rotors downwind. I underestimated how far from the mountains the rotor would be. After flying about 10 miles out of the pass, I felt it would be safe to make a right turn, parallel to the mountain range. I was wrong and flew right into the rotor. I spent a good 5 min. with very little control over my plane. It was a very upleasant feeling. If that happened in IMC, I wouldn't give big odds on getting out in one piece. John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180) -- JGalban Posted at www.flight.org |
#38
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Downdraft at 12,000 feet
JGalban schrieb:
I spent a good 5 min. with very little control over my plane. You stayed 5 minutes in the rotor and didn't even think of doing a 90 degrees turn and leave it? If that happened in IMC, Rotors, except at their very top, are always VMC. Stefan |
#39
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Downdraft at 12,000 feet
Jose wrote:
Now, just because there is not enough water in the air to see the wave does not mean that they don't exist... just that you can not see them. Does the presence of water intensify the wave, inasmuch as the evaporation and condensation of water is also an energy pump? An excellent thought, but no, the wind is the driving force and the prime energy factor. When evaporation and condensation is the driving force, you get towering cumulo-nimbus and vertical wind sheer (severe downdrafts). Best regards, Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocations!" -- Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jer at frii.com http://users.frii.com/jer/ C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot BM218 HAM N0FZD 247 Young Eagles! |
#40
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Downdraft at 12,000 feet
"Stefan" wrote in message ... Morgans schrieb: From what I have read, entering a real rotor, one would be lucky to be spat out with the wings still attached to the plane. Thoughts? Some out here can discuss rotors with authority, I'm sure. Glider pilots use rotors routinely as an elevator to the wave. At some places, the tow plane tows them right into the rotor. (Formation flight into the rotor.) So far, all wings still in place and everybody still alive. Just make sure you stay well below vB. No, gliders may transit the rotor but they sure as hell don't like to fly in it. The best way is to catch the bottom of the wave near the lee side of whatever terrain is creating it. Some even work on towing or thermaling into the secondary or tertiary wave and avoid the primary rotor all together. |
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