"Flying" your glider on the ground after a landout during athunderstorm or alternatives?

Hi, everyone.

I searched but couldn't find the posts just now, but I think I remember reading posts from some of you who said that you have successfully "flown" your glider on the ground in a thunderstorm after a landout.

Having been a CFI and charter pilot in Nebraska, I'm quite familiar with landing and taxiing in very high winds (50-60 mph one day in Wichita in a Cessna 150 - basically flying the plane on the ground)

Since I haven't read about this technique in any of my glidering books, I got curious about what exactly is your technique.

In powered planes, one can use the engine to stay in place, but with a glider, assuming that you do not have a hammer and a "claw" ground tie-down to tie down the nose of the glider, wouldn't the strong wind move you backwards, perhaps breaking the tail assembly?

And if you get lifted off by a gust, couldn't that technique prove deadly?

But then if that technique is inherently dangerous, what is a less dangerous technique? Quartering the glider into the wind and sitting on the upwind wing? I don't remember reading that one either in any of my glidering books. For that matter, I don't remember reading about ANY approaching thunderstorm landout techniques in any of my glidering books.

What have you done in this situation that has worked out well...and not?

Ben

Since gliders have much less drag than airplanes you have better odds of staying put with just the wheel brake. You need to maintain sufficient stick forward contact with the ground. Wind at ground level is especially turbulent and tumbly so this is certainly not a safe thing to be doing; it's easy to visualize that stick and rudder could be overwhelmed with dire consequences if conditions get bad enough. The problem is that if you land in very strong wind, it can be your only option until things settle down. Thankfully, I haven't been in this situation in several decades. Wave flying can get you there too.

On Monday, June 3, 2019 at 7:58:43 AM UTC-6, Charles Ethridge wrote:
Hi, everyone.

I searched but couldn't find the posts just now, but I think I remember reading posts from some of you who said that you have successfully "flown" your glider on the ground in a thunderstorm after a landout.

Having been a CFI and charter pilot in Nebraska, I'm quite familiar with landing and taxiing in very high winds (50-60 mph one day in Wichita in a Cessna 150 - basically flying the plane on the ground)

Since I haven't read about this technique in any of my glidering books, I got curious about what exactly is your technique.

In powered planes, one can use the engine to stay in place, but with a glider, assuming that you do not have a hammer and a "claw" ground tie-down to tie down the nose of the glider, wouldn't the strong wind move you backwards, perhaps breaking the tail assembly?

And if you get lifted off by a gust, couldn't that technique prove deadly?

But then if that technique is inherently dangerous, what is a less dangerous technique? Quartering the glider into the wind and sitting on the upwind wing? I don't remember reading that one either in any of my glidering books. For that matter, I don't remember reading about ANY approaching thunderstorm landout techniques in any of my glidering books.

What have you done in this situation that has worked out well...and not?

Ben

Several years ago, we had quite a spectacular front roar out of Wyoming into Colorado. The winds were 90mph near the glider port and dropped gradually to farther east to 65mph were I was in Greeley, CO, playing baseball with the Boy Scout troop on a father/son outing. I got a call on my cell. A club member in the 1-34 had been at 14,000 MSL (~8500 AGL) near Fort Collins and attempted to get back to Owl Canyon before the front arrived. He landed about four miles south in a field. He didn't have the club's number in his phone. I got his location and called the club and gave them his number.. He stayed in the glider as it probably would have been much worse, and surely more dangerous, to try and exit it rather than to 'ground fly' it. The winds were dropping as a crew from the club hooked up a trailer and went to get him. The property owner did walk out of the glider and asked if he needed help and I think helped the crew get into the field. Back in Greeley, we kept everyone under the shelter as a lot of large limbs were departing the mature trees.

Frank Whiteley

Had to do that once in Australia.
Visible downburst the other side of Keepit. Threw the flight computer info out the window.
Landed the Nimbus 3 in a big paddock (field), Hoped for an aero retrieve when it calmed down. Gave that idea up when another thunderstorm changed course.
Flew the glider through the storm, canopy completely fogged.
The main gear dug quite a hole while rotating like a weather vane.
It wasn't difficult or particularly scary. Call it interesting.
We carried the wing tips, outer panels and horizontal to the trailer, but with less weight we still couldn't move the fuselage / inner panels. Left it on wing stands (plastic bags over the exposed parts) and got it out the next morning.
A mud guard / fender on the main wheel is counterproductive in a muddy field!
Jim


On Monday, June 3, 2019 at 6:58:43 AM UTC-7, Charles Ethridge wrote:
Hi, everyone.

I searched but couldn't find the posts just now, but I think I remember reading posts from some of you who said that you have successfully "flown" your glider on the ground in a thunderstorm after a landout.

Having been a CFI and charter pilot in Nebraska, I'm quite familiar with landing and taxiing in very high winds (50-60 mph one day in Wichita in a Cessna 150 - basically flying the plane on the ground)

Since I haven't read about this technique in any of my glidering books, I got curious about what exactly is your technique.

In powered planes, one can use the engine to stay in place, but with a glider, assuming that you do not have a hammer and a "claw" ground tie-down to tie down the nose of the glider, wouldn't the strong wind move you backwards, perhaps breaking the tail assembly?

And if you get lifted off by a gust, couldn't that technique prove deadly?

But then if that technique is inherently dangerous, what is a less dangerous technique? Quartering the glider into the wind and sitting on the upwind wing? I don't remember reading that one either in any of my glidering books. For that matter, I don't remember reading about ANY approaching thunderstorm landout techniques in any of my glidering books.

What have you done in this situation that has worked out well...and not?

Ben

On Mon, 03 Jun 2019 06:58:40 -0700, Charles Ethridge wrote:

What have you done in this situation that has worked out well...and not?

I landed out in a Pegase on a local airfield 19 km from home, shortly
before a strongish rain squall blew through, so turned the glider
crosswind, with the upwind wing tip on the ground and sat on the tip
until it had all blown through.

Got wet, but had no problems at all with the Peg trying to rotate or blow
away. In that attitude the tailplane may even have given some extra down-
force on the (rubber) tailskid.

After the squall had gone our tug came in and towed me out.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

For the few folks that've not seen it, here's how the gliders and towplanes handled 55 knot gusts at the US Air Force Academy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_WmjWAGkLI

I'd like to hear what they plan to do the next time this happens (if they're unable to avoid the situation).

Never been there....hope I am never am......
Closest was racing a storm to home field in a sailplane.
Had a treeline about 45* to surface wind.
Landed, "taxied" towards trees (near trailers), sat in cockpit until storm passed.
I was sorta in tree windshadow, waited until cell passed.

If I was stuck in a worse spot, I would likely do......

Stick full forward.
Full wheel brake (may be covered by next on the list)....
Full dive brakes.
If flapped, full negative flaps......
Hope I am sorta pointed into the wind......

Hope for the best.......

If wrong heading.....use "cross wind controls" from the AIM to make the best of it.....

On Monday, June 3, 2019 at 9:58:43 AM UTC-4, Charles Ethridge wrote:
Hi, everyone.

I searched but couldn't find the posts just now, but I think I remember reading posts from some of you who said that you have successfully "flown" your glider on the ground in a thunderstorm after a landout.

Having been a CFI and charter pilot in Nebraska, I'm quite familiar with landing and taxiing in very high winds (50-60 mph one day in Wichita in a Cessna 150 - basically flying the plane on the ground)

Since I haven't read about this technique in any of my glidering books, I got curious about what exactly is your technique.

In powered planes, one can use the engine to stay in place, but with a glider, assuming that you do not have a hammer and a "claw" ground tie-down to tie down the nose of the glider, wouldn't the strong wind move you backwards, perhaps breaking the tail assembly?

And if you get lifted off by a gust, couldn't that technique prove deadly?

But then if that technique is inherently dangerous, what is a less dangerous technique? Quartering the glider into the wind and sitting on the upwind wing? I don't remember reading that one either in any of my glidering books. For that matter, I don't remember reading about ANY approaching thunderstorm landout techniques in any of my glidering books.

What have you done in this situation that has worked out well...and not?

Ben

My 2 worst ones were handled in different ways:
#1 at Littlefield TX involved running along the storm until it was hopeless, then turning downwind to get away and pick a field. On final I had about 20MPH ground speed. The gust front hit less than a minute after touchdown. I stayed in with full brakes and hoped not to get blown over. I resolved not to do that again.
#2 at Mifflin. I got on the ground with about 3 minutes before the gust front. I turned the glider 90 degrees to the wind with the brakes tied open and laid on the upwind wing. The rain that came was the coldest rain I think I ever felt. Gusts were over 50 in that one. It was uncomfortable, but I'm convinced it was safer. My other ship, flown by one of the juniors I was sponsoring, ended up about 30 miles away with an uneventful landing and easy retrieve. He did it best.
FWIW
UH

I landed my open Jantar on a paved runway in 60mph winds after a wave flight. I didn't dare get out of the glider until help arrived. With that much wind, there was no other traffic trying to land. I held wings level, held the brake, and called my crew. On my landing, I had rolled past the taxiway I needed to take to get behind the hangars where we might have a chance to disassemble. The wind was right down the runway and while I waited, I wondered if I could back taxi to the desired taxiway. Sure enough, I let off the brake and slowly backed up to the taxiway. I was able to steer the glider easily. I kept the flaps negative, and the spoilers open with the stick forward enough to keep from lifting off the ground. Has anybody else back taxied in their glider?

Boggs

First a story that provides some background for my decision to fly through the storm on the ground.

I was sailing before I was a glider pilot. I was in Plymouth Ma, and was about the take a launch out to our boat, but the approaching weather look realy bad. Very dark, and as it got closer a viable green color in the clouds.. No wind yet, but we could hear thunder and see lightning. As we were about to step onto the launch, a told the captain of the open launch, we would wait this out on shore. As we got back to the club house it hit with a vengeance. One inch hail, 50kt winds, but most important for this story, the flag held straight out, slowly wrapped once around the flag pole over the course of the 5 to 10min event. So at full strength the wind rotated a full 360 deg.

Fast forward 15 years, and I am returning to Mifflin from the west, dodging thunder storms. I was almost home, but had 7 miles of unlandable terrain between me and home. I decided better to land now. That is when I found the airport looked like all the other perfect 4000 foot long fields. Anyway, found it, and whether it offered any protection or not, I did not want to be out side in the plentiful lightning. Also I knew the wind direction could change. So I stayed in the glider. I kept on the brakes, reflexed the flaps (304cz) did not put on the dive breaks (in the 304 full dive breaks.. puts landing flap in) and mostly kept the nose down with the stick. Over the course of the event, the wind rotated about 120 deg. I could keep it into the wind easly. It worked out well, but I would never want to repeat it.

Shifting back to the sailing story, we went out to our boat right after the storm to check for damage. We were greated with an inch of hail accumulation the deck, but all else was fine. I went below and turned on the radio, to hear some poor soul in the Cape cod canal wanting to know if there was traffic (read BIG trafic) as his viability was near zero.

"Cape cod canal traffic... ouch... this is sailing vessel... ouh... bla bla, please... ouch ... advise of any traffic... ****..." as he tried to dodge the hail on deck...