Runway Incursion and NASA form

Hi all,

After a short local flight, I landed on 4L at HNL and forgot to hold
short of 4R. After I made the right turn on taxiway Echo from 4L, the
tower (sensing that I was taxiing a bit fast) tells me, in a rather
calm voice, "hold short of 4R!".

By that time, I had already crossed the 4R hold bars. I was not on
runway 4R, just between the hold bars and the runway edge. There was
neither departing nor landing traffic. I apologized, and the tower
told me to contact ground. Never heard from the tower again.

What should I do? Should I fill out the NASA form?

Thanks,
Alex

"Koopas Ly" wrote in message
om...
What should I do? Should I fill out the NASA form?

We just had this thread.

File the form. And not just because it protects you from an enforcement
action.

Pete

I am going to fill out the form and mail it tomorrow. Reading about the
NASA form on AOPA's website, the following is stated:

"However, pilots should still exercise caution when completing the "Type of
Event/Situation" block on the identification strip of the NASA form. The
pilot may have to show this strip to the FAA in order to obtain the waiver
of sanction. By innocently describing the event, the pilot could
inadvertently admit to the violation or a part of the violation."

What should I put under "Type of Event/Situation"? Was it actually a runway
incursion? I wasn't ON runway 4R, only beyond the hold short bars between
4L and 4R.

Awaiting advice,
Alex

(Koopas Ly) wrote in message . com...
Hi all,

After a short local flight, I landed on 4L at HNL and forgot to hold
short of 4R. After I made the right turn on taxiway Echo from 4L, the
tower (sensing that I was taxiing a bit fast) tells me, in a rather
calm voice, "hold short of 4R!".

By that time, I had already crossed the 4R hold bars. I was not on
runway 4R, just between the hold bars and the runway edge. There was
neither departing nor landing traffic. I apologized, and the tower
told me to contact ground. Never heard from the tower again.

What should I do? Should I fill out the NASA form?

Thanks,
Alex

On 10 Nov 2003 01:21:41 -0800, (Koopas Ly)
wrote:

Was it actually a runway incursion?

Was there a loss of separation? Was there an aircraft within 3,000'
landing or departing?

I'll get flamed for this...but it was way too innocent a transgression. The
controllers did not sound upset. As a previous poster commented, "Was there
a loss of separation?" And the answer appears to be no. If there was
there'd be paperwork to be filled out by the tower and THEN I'd fill the
NASA form out.

I believe the form offers protection only once in five years if I read it
correctly. If I'm correct wouldn't want to turn in my "get out of jail free
card" over such a minor transgression.

I'm wide open here soaking in 100LL...I can already see Peter Duniho right
now cracking his knuckles now over his keyboard and wiping a bit of drool
from the right corner of his mouth.

Kobra



wrote in message
...
On 10 Nov 2003 01:21:41 -0800, (Koopas Ly)
wrote:

Was it actually a runway incursion?

Was there a loss of separation? Was there an aircraft within 3,000'
landing or departing?

" I'll get flamed for this...but it was way too innocent a transgression.
The
controllers did not sound upset. As a previous poster commented, "Was
there
a loss of separation?" And the answer appears to be no. If there was
there'd be paperwork to be filled out by the tower and THEN I'd fill the
NASA form out.

This isn't a "flame" but I disagree. While you are certainly correct that in
this situation likely the Tower has done nothing and nothing will ever be
heard on the situation it is not necessary at all for the Tower to even
imply they are begining to file a report on the pilot. It is possibly,
although not likely, the first word the pilot hears is the letter of
investigation arriving in the mail. FILL OUT THE NASA FORM and then don't
worry about it.

I believe the form offers protection only once in five years if I read it
correctly. If I'm correct wouldn't want to turn in my "get out of jail
free
card" over such a minor transgression.

In regards to this you are right and wrong. You can turn in NASA forms night
and day and they provide protection that one time the FAA comes calling. If
the pilot fills out a NASA form on this and the FAA does not investigate
this doesn't "waste" his one get out of jail free card. If they do
investigate it then well the NASA form will be worth its weight in gold
won't it?

In regards to this you are right and wrong. You can turn in NASA forms
night
and day and they provide protection that one time the FAA comes calling.
If
the pilot fills out a NASA form on this and the FAA does not investigate
this doesn't "waste" his one get out of jail free card.

This I did not know...if this is correct then I agree...turn the form in.

Kobra

"Koopas Ly" wrote in message om...

What should I do? Should I fill out the NASA form?

Never hurts to fill out a NASA form. As others point out, it's not even necessary
to think you did anything wrong, however the immunity granted gives a big incentive
to bare your soul in the name of aviation safety.

People violate ATC instructions all the time. Unless this causes an error that the
controller would be dinged for and he needs to cover his butt, or you do something
exceedingly dangerous or stupid, nothing ever comes of it.

"David Corsi" wrote in message news:iAMrb.160468$Tr4.432588@attbi_s03...

In regards to this you are right and wrong. You can turn in NASA forms night
and day and they provide protection that one time the FAA comes calling. If
the pilot fills out a NASA form on this and the FAA does not investigate
this doesn't "waste" his one get out of jail free card. If they do
investigate it then well the NASA form will be worth its weight in gold
won't it?

Correct. There isn't a waste of a "get out of jail free card." It's not the
use of the NASA form that gets charged against you, it's having any violations
(absolved by use of the form or not). You can't save up your "card" for a real
big violation, because any enforcement action will wipe it out (absolved or otherwise).