MVAs in AZ

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news:nrctg.664$_M.186@fed1read04...

Most controllers do not design MIAs or MVAs. It is a specialty, which
requires airspace training beyond what is required to control traffic.

Steve is commenting in the abstract, rather than from real-world
practices.

In alt.binaries.pictures.aviation I have posted a two page PDF that shows
both the MIAs (LA Center) and MVAs (Palm Springs TRACON) for an identical
portion of the airspace around Palm Springs.

The title of the posting is:

Palm Springs MIAs MVAs for IFR Group

The file is:

PSP MIAs and MVAs.pdf

Note in particular how much higher the MIA is for the valley floor. This
is because the specialist at Los Angeles Center know they have no radar
coverage down in that valley, thus the MIA design in this case takes into
substantial consideration the center's radar coverage in that area.

It's a facility call to design MIAs in accordance with what they consider
to be the best fit for their airspace and terrain.


What do you base that on? FAA Order 7210.3 says MVAs are established
irrespective of the flight-checked radar coverage, that they are based on
obstruction clearance criteria only. FAA Order 7210.37 says MIAs are to be
established without respect to normal radar coverage. Have these orders
been rescinded?

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news:_Actg.665$_M.641@fed1read04...

To see how much higher the MIAs are over the Palm Springs valley than the
MVAs.


Why? What's your point?

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news:nrctg.664$_M.186@fed1read04...

Most controllers do not design MIAs or MVAs. It is a specialty, which
requires airspace training beyond what is required to control traffic.

Steve is commenting in the abstract, rather than from real-world
practices.

In alt.binaries.pictures.aviation I have posted a two page PDF that shows
both the MIAs (LA Center) and MVAs (Palm Springs TRACON) for an identical
portion of the airspace around Palm Springs.

The title of the posting is:

Palm Springs MIAs MVAs for IFR Group

The file is:

PSP MIAs and MVAs.pdf

Note in particular how much higher the MIA is for the valley floor. This
is because the specialist at Los Angeles Center know they have no radar
coverage down in that valley, thus the MIA design in this case takes into
substantial consideration the center's radar coverage in that area.

It's a facility call to design MIAs in accordance with what they consider
to be the best fit for their airspace and terrain.



What do you base that on? FAA Order 7210.3 says MVAs are established
irrespective of the flight-checked radar coverage, that they are based on
obstruction clearance criteria only. FAA Order 7210.37 says MIAs are to be
established without respect to normal radar coverage. Have these orders
been rescinded?


No, the orders are guidance, but no one is going to criticize a center
for using radar coverage as a floor in a terrain-laden area like the
Palm Springs area.

The MVA and MIA charts I posted a couple of months ago for that area
made that quite clear.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news:_Actg.665$_M.641@fed1read04...

To see how much higher the MIAs are over the Palm Springs valley than the
MVAs.



Why? What's your point?


That obstacle clearance was not the driving factor for ZLA's MIAs in the
Palm Springs area; center radar coverage was.

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
...

No, the orders are guidance, but no one is going to criticize a center for
using radar coverage as a floor in a terrain-laden area like the Palm
Springs area.


FAA orders are guidance? They're not mandatory for those affected? What in
the wide, wide world of sports do you base that on?

Why wouldn't someone who knows how it's supposed to be done criticize a
center for doing it improperly?



The MVA and MIA charts I posted a couple of months ago for that area made
that quite clear.


Made what quite clear? That FAA orders are only guidance material, or that
no one is going to criticize a center for using radar coverage as a floor in
a terrain-laden area like the Palm Springs area?

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news

That obstacle clearance was not the driving factor for ZLA's MIAs in the
Palm Springs area; center radar coverage was.


How can you make that conclusion? Based on what you posted all we can know
for certain is at least one of the maps was made improperly.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news
That obstacle clearance was not the driving factor for ZLA's MIAs in the
Palm Springs area; center radar coverage was.



How can you make that conclusion? Based on what you posted all we can know
for certain is at least one of the maps was made improperly.


You should let the Western-Pacific Region know that. That seems to be
the right thing for an FAA employee to do.